Why You Procrastinate | Ear Biscuits

(upbeat music) – Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Rhett – And I'm Link

Man, I'm glad you're listening because this week at the round table of dim lighting, we're talking at each other and going down a rabbit hole Where's it gonna take us? – We don't know – We've got an envelope – Depends on what the rabbit decided when he dug it – With the topic of discussion, maybe a question, I don't know, haven't seen it

– Well, that is an interesting question, is the rabbit hole that we're going to go down determined already by a rabbit that dug it or are we the rabbits digging the hole? That's a deep philosophical question – It's a mythical beast who responded to a social media post – That's not what I'm talking about I'm not talking about who asked the question I'm saying the people going down the rabbit hole, are we the rabbits digging the hole and determining the direction of the hole? Are we following a hole that has already been determined ahead of time? It's really a question about determinism

– Oh, well the saying– – Catch up, Link – The saying implies that there's a hole and you're just going down it You're not the rabbit – So you believe that our conversation is already determined Are you saying that we do not have free will in how we interact with the question that we're going to– – Free will

– Free will – Free will – Emphasis on the will – Lincoln always makes fun of the way I saw white – White

– Every time I say white, he says white after me – No, 'cause there's an h in it – White – White – Well, are we gonna prematurely go down another rabbit hole which is determinism versus free will of conversation? – I thought I'd just raise the question

– I mean the story of my concussion is what really made me pause and start to think about the determinism of a conversation and of life in general – That is a really good point – As we talk about in our Tour of Mythicality, we have a whole bit about it on the stage– – We also have a book – Which comes from the story in the book about me breaking my pelvis and losing eight hours of memory because, well, you don't lose eight hours of memory 'cause of your pelvis, that was the hit in my head – Well, Link keeps his memory in his pelvis

– It's deeper – It's an unusual thing – I keep my memory deep – It's actually more protected down there – But my point is you put me in a certain situation and the concussion allowed me to be in the situation again and again and again and I kept saying the exact same thing again and again and again

– Right – So if you say a certain thing with certain, I mean there's lots of variables but with all of those variables cascading from the big bang to now, I'm bound, I could easily believe if you twisted my arm hard enough that man, with all the variables, I'm bound to respond in a certain way – Well, and most research shows that you actually your frontal cortex is just narrating the decision that another part of your brain already made And so it's making you think that you made a decision but really the decisions that you make are just your DNA interacting with the environment That doesn't make life any less meaningful

It just means that– – You really fought saying meaningless twice – It doesn't make life less meaningful, it just means that me and you are wired in a certain way and we're gonna look at this question and the way that we're gonna interact with this question is already determined, man – I think you're making this podcast feel more meaningless because the moments that if I were gonna listen to this podcast the moments that I would be listening for and perking up for would be the points where the unexpected thing happens – But to you and to me and to the ear biscuiter listening – It creates laughter, it creates thought – Yeah, but none of that changes

People get really upset when people start making that argument but it doesn't change your experience Me and you are gonna interact with this question as if and we're gonna be narrating to ourselves that we are making all these decisions and coming up with all this stuff and the person listening is gonna be reacting to it because they're hearing it for the first time but even their reaction to it is predetermined I mean people get upset about it but it doesn't change life at all – If you go to a car dealership and you're like, "Oh, I'm excited, I'm gonna buy a car "I'm so excited about this," let's say I've won the lottery and I get the pick of the litter, any car that I want off the lot, but then, and help me with this analogy– – That's always a good sign

– But then somebody as you walk in the front doors with the power and the ability to pick any car you want and just drive off the lot like a mogul, leans over and whispers in your ear and says, "We already know which car you're gonna buy "and all the paperwork's done, "the plates are on it "and it's already taken care of" I can't think that that wouldn't negatively impact my experience of I was like, man you just ruined it for me I won the lottery, I'm gonna roll out of here like a mogul, thee process of picking out the car But now, in my mind, I'm like, well which one did I already pick? – But that's not how it works – And now I need to pick again

– But hold on– – and I would feel like my experience was robbed – But here's where that analogy breaks down because by saying that things are determined ahead of time and that ultimately your decisions consist of your genetic makeup interacting with an environment is not, the environment is also that car dealer coming up to you, the salesman, and saying, "You've already made a decision, "we know which one you're gonna pick" At that point, the environment has now changed and so your DNA, your mind is gonna react to that and you may end up picking something different than you would if he had not interacted with you in that way – But it would have been the thing that he whispered and said that he knew so it wouldn't have changed that, it wouldn't have changed it He would then have been lying

– It's impossible or it's very difficult to calculate the probability of how much his interaction with you and telling you that he already knows what you're gonna do would impact your decision but that doesn't mean that you actually had the choice to make a different decision, it just means that the environment impacted your decision but it still feels like a choice so what's the difference? – I think I'm just gonna turn around and go back to my farty old car and just get in it and drive away and say, "you know what, I'm no one's pawn" And nobody would win at that point I've lost, they've lost business They shouldn't have whispered my ear, that was their mistake If you know what someone's gonna do you don't whisper it in their ear that hey, I know what you're gonna do

– But the thing is is that an omniscient computer who analyzed your environment and your genetic makeup put you into that situation, they could determine ahead of time if they had perfect ability to interpret all the events, they would be able to interpret, they would be able to perfectly predict that in the end you would say, "Screw it, I'm going back home, nobody's my boss" That doesn't mean that you didn't have agency, it just means that you didn't really have– – It means that agency is not exactly what you feel like it is – I don't even like to talk about this because all it does is make people mad People get so upset when you start telling them that your actually not making any free decisions, you're just interacting with your environment – It actually makes me feel better

– That's one of the good things about it – Ironically It's like once it's done, it's like I did it and I couldn't have done anything else – Once it's done it's like I did it Okay, well let me airport my phone here

– It's buzzing Well, who is that? Is that business or pleasure? – It was both, you know, one of those deals – Business and pleasure Explain yourself It was just the Slack conversation, the office Slack conversation which can get a little overwhelming

The general Slack especially, you know when it's just– – General Slack comes in here with his tanks – Before we get into the question though, I do want to, I was talking to you a little bit about this I had an interesting experience last night I was in the father/son three point contest in my son's basketball league – So this is like why does this exist? – Fun, man, fun times – Oh, it's just for fun? – Well, it's a fundraiser to raise money for the team

– So did you give money or did you just show up and grace them with your three point presence? – Both – How much money did you donate? – I'm not gonna tell you that (laughs) Six million dollars I'm floating the team for the next seven generations – Six million dollars

– So anyway, Lock tells me on Monday, well first of all, on Monday we're going to this and he's like, "Dad, there's a fundraiser," that was Saturday night, "and I'm going to shoot free throws, "I'm gonna shoot 100 free throws "and you have to give a certain amount of money "for every one I make or whatever" He was like, "Oh, also there's a dad three point contest" He tells me this as I'm driving him there Lock, I don't– – Oh, as you're driving to the thing? – Yeah, he told me this on Saturday but when we got there I was upset with him because he thought that it was Saturday night and I was like, "You gotta tell me, "you know I care about these things, "you know I'm competitive, "you know this is a dad versus dad situation "that I want to be, I want my game to bee in tune" – Oh, you gotta prime the pump on your jump shot

– But it turns out it wasn't Saturday, it was last night, several nights later – So he accidentally gave you a heads up – Right – But you still got angry with him and that's all that really matters – But I still didn't practice

What I did– – You were gonna practice but you never got around to it – I kept intending to practice and then the situation rolls around last night and I'm sitting up there and I'm like looking at the other dads and I'm like, first of all, Lock's gotta shoot, there's not a lot of room for error here because he shoots five three pointers and then I shoot five, we go around the world from on elbow to the other elbow and so you get 10 and it's hard to just get out of the stands and not get into a groove and just start hitting three pointers – Had he shot 100 free throws already? – On Saturday night, yeah – Okay, on a different night? – Yeah So I see a guy– – There's no warm up, huh for the three point thing? – All it was was once it got to be that part of the night 'cause there was like a kid's three point contest and there was a mom and son free throw contest

– Now I'm there for that A kid three point contest, that also sounds amazing – It was absolutely riveting the whole night And then it gets down to the moment we've all been waiting for, the dad three point contest, and I can look around and I see that there's other dads who are pretty serious including one guy who was in a head to toe North Carolina Tarheels basketball uniform – What? – Yes

And as you know, even though people assume that we are fans of north Carolina because we're from North Carolina, we hate them, we hate them with a fiery passion If the school could completely just be obliterated without any of the actual individuals being harmed and I could press a button, I would do it – You'd press the button? – I would press a button If it meant that all of the people could be safe but all the buildings and the institution and the Dean Smith Center could just completely blow up, I would do it, I'm just gonna be honest with you – Can I hold your hand while you did it? Can I make it push harder? – And no, I don't hate Duke, that's the thing, I don't also hate Duke

I don't like Duke because it's still a rival but I with a fiery passion hate UNC – I would just like to back away slowly from your fervor because in college– – And my wife went there, by the way – It was really fun to have an archrival especially when they refused to acknowledge that we even existed – Because they don't consider us a rival because we suck so bad at sports historically – And they consider Duke their rival

– You passed 30 years or so – So in college I cared about it but now I mean the wolf pack have burnt me so much that I still claim my alma mater, don't get me wrong, but like I don't watch the games like you do, I don't follow it and I don't get upset anymore – I still embrace the– – My life has extended – Well, being an NC State fan has given me a level of character that other people, people who are UNC fans don't have When your team actually wins national championships, cheating included, by the way, I will throw that out there

– Do the Tarheels not have character, to clarify your statement, because they don't lose, or because they're horrible people? – Once you submit yourself to that school for four years or so, you lose character I saw it happen to my wife, I saw it happen to my brother They went in certain people and they came out people without character and slowly throughout the years, I've slowly built her character back – Oh, you have? – 'Cause I went to NC State – To your credit

I'm sure she thanks you all the time for building her character back – So anyway, I see this guy in the head to toe, he had on freaking UNC socks – I do hate him – And I was like, what is wrong with you, man? Of course, I went and talked to him I had to talk to him, I was like, "Oh, UNC huh, did you go to school there?" I always doubt that they go to school there 'cause it's kind of like the Lakers, it doesn't mean you're a fan– – I hope he went there, he's got a full outfit, he better have been on the team

– He was not on the team In his defense, he did graduate from UNC I was like, "Well, I went to NC state" He was like, "Oh, ACC battle" – Now what are you wearing? – I'm actually wearing exactly what I have on right now

This shirt, these jeans, different underwear – And what kind of shoes? – I wore like my high top, gray high tops – Your Air Force Ones – But no, the other ones that zip up now, you know, I got the other ones – Oh those

So you just walked in off the street – Every other dad is also not in a full basketball uniform One guy was in a gi One dad was in a gi – Hold on

– Yes I don't know if he's excited about the new Cobra Kai on YouTube Red or what – You didn't talk to him, did you? – No, I refuse to speak to a man in a gi unless he's actively fighting – Unless he ghin You also shouldn't have talked to the Chapel Hill guy in full regalia

– I had to, I had to – What do you mean? You didn't have to – I wanted to intimidate him – Oh – So I talked to him and– – Did he apologize? Was he self conscious about his uniform? – Yeah, yeah, he said, "I've only worn this one time "and that was when we won the championship two years ago

" I was like, "Yeah, thanks for rubbing it in, jerk" But he says, "I don't get a chance to wear this" And I almost thought, well this is not the chance but he is playing basketball, anyway, by the way, super nice guy, he seems to have gotten back most of his character – He's not playing basketball, by the way, he's shooting five three pointers

– He's actually shooting 10 'cause he's got two sons so he gets to do it twice – Oh, good for him, a guy with that level of character had two children – I'm gonna have to throw Lock under the bus here, sorry Lock, but Lock missed all five of his three pointers and he's a great three point shooter, it was just a little bit of an off night for him – Did you yell at him? – No but I gave him a very piercing look of disappointment which I've gotten very good at So then I'm like, okay, this is all on me and of course I'm not actually thinking, I'm a little bit of narcissist and very selfish so I'm not thinking about the McLaughlin team score

– You want to plug anything right now after you've made the narcissist comment? – No, I didn't talk about this on Twitter or Instagram which would be rhettmc both places, shout out, but no I didn't do that Anyway, so once Lock has missed all five, I'm like this is about me, this is about me saving face – But before then it wasn't all about you – Right, but when Team McLaughlin had a chance it was about Team McLaughlin but now it's just about Team Rhett, you know what I'm saying? And so first of all, a lot of these kids know who I am and so there's that pressure It's like, okay, here's the internet comedian getting up there and he's tall, we know he likes to win things so at this point, I'm like, well I can't look like a jerk

– I wish I was there so I could have kept score like in the old days – It's pretty easy to keep score when somebody's shooting five free pointers So I get up there, a little disappointed in Lock having missed all of them and I line up the first one, air ball, short, missed everything And again, historically I'm a good shooter So immediately there's a wave of embarrassment that begins to come over me but I'm like, these are the kind of moments I live for, starting off a five string three point series with an air ball

Step up to the next one– – Did anyone chant, air ball? – Well, lots of dads had air balled, one guy threw it over the entire goal one time I mean, dads aren't made for shooting – The backboard? – Yeah Most dads are not ready for this – Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would've not been not embarrassing

– Second three pointer, swish, I'm back on track Third three pointer from the top of the key, another air ball – Oh, now that's the place where you could easily bank it in which again, it's not cool but it would've counted – Yeah, one dad did that and several moms did that on free throws So now I'm one for three, 33%, not real bad when it comes to three pointers but two of them are air balls which is real bad and then the fourth one, swish

– Swish – I only swish I don't hit the rim, either it goes in or air balls – You're not gonna hit that rim – And then fifth one, swish

– Swish – So i made three out of five, 60%, pretty good I wish I hadn't air balled but at that point I was just like, the guy in the full Carolina outfit can not make more than three out of five or else I will feel defeated – That was your game – At that point, that was all I cared about, just tying him 'cause I knew he was gonna have two chances at it

And long story short, the first time around he hit three and he missed the fifth one He had made three out of four and Jesse's recording this – On her phone? – On her phone – To rub it in your face? – On the fifth one, well to post to her Instagram story, I'm not gonna shout her out, I don't want you guys to flood her, the fifth one, he would've been four out of five, he missed it and there was an audible yes on her Instagram story and it was me Involuntarily, just screaming yes when he missed the fifth one

– You screamed yes when he missed it? – It wasn't like super loud I was right next to her phone I couldn't help it, man He's freaking wearing the enemy's uniform and then he gets up there for his second son and he makes three again – I'm surprised you didn't start heckling him

– He makes three again And no dad made more than three There was four of us that made three So I left with a little bit of my pride intact Two air balls, though

– Gotta work on that, Rhett – Little bit of disappointment in my son, little bit of disappointment in myself, you know, just an average Wednesday – We're gonna go down a rabbit hole after we crack open an envelope here in a second but first, we just got to share a little merch action with y'all 'Course I'm wearing a GMM gray on black tee – And my friend hanger here is wearing the I What My GMM shirt

You know, it's kind of in the style of your classic late 80s, early 90s– – Just in time for summer – Summer shirt – Yeah, you need that, wear it at the pool, wear it at the beach, wear it in your home when no one's in the reach – Oh, mythicalstore, that's the place to get all that and more

– Thanks for supporting internetainment Alright, let's take the top envelope here I'm opening it up having never seen it – You said that as if you're lying, you know what I'm saying? Having never seen it, like a magician, I've never met this man before, I just trained him earlier tonight We haven't actually seen it

– Morgan posted, "Why do people procrastinate? "Why is putting something off "only to have to deal with it all in one go "and in such a short amount of time "much more tempting?" Okay, Morgan, you want us to get into the art or the vice of procrastination He wants to know why people do it, he can't understand it So we should each probably say where we fall on the spectrum because it's not an I do or I don't, I imagine it's more of just a general trajectory of procrastination or not Would you consider yourself a procrastinator? This is a tough question for you? It's easy for me, so I'll answer – I would not consider you a procrastinator by any means

– No When I think about procrastination, I always think of it in terms of tests, high school and college, or haiku which I almost said – You almost got a scholarship to haiku school – Whenever I get a haiku assignment or I'm being tested on my haikus, I'm like immediately studying – How would you test haikus? I think it's is it the right number of syllables or not? – You count the syllables – if it isn't, it's an F

– You blew it You blew it – How many syllables is it? Could you tell me that? – I should because I just watched that movie 'cause we talked about it, Taika Waititi movie, what's it called? – Search for the Wilderpeople, Hunt for the Wilderpeople – Hunt for the Wilderpeople is how I would say it – Sure

Excellent movie by the way – Watched it with the kids I was like, alright, the kids are like, "It's Friday night, "let's have a family movie night" And I'm like, "Yes, I have the perfect movie "I'm actually keeping a list of movies "so we no longer have to argue for 30 or 45 minutes "on what movies everybody wants

" So basically I've started keeping a list of movies that I want to see that they can tolerate and then I'm just making an executive decision – That's good, be a dad – Yeah, because otherwise we never get anywhere and I know how to make everybody happy with this movie And so I said, "We're gonna watch it" And everybody's groaning and I'm like, no groaning, you don't know anything about the movie

– They think they know everything – You tell 'em something and then they groan like they had decided, like it was predetermined that they were gonna groan It didn't matter what I was gonna say – They do the same thing with food – Yeah, it's like, even if it's something they love like we're gonna get some Mexican food takeout

(groaning) It's like it has to be their idea I don't get it – Teens, man – Well, I've got some that aren't teens, they're still doing it – Me too, me too

– It's just progeny – Yeah, yeah, children – It's our fault In the movie which I highly recommend for family viewing– – For all viewing – The kid says haikus, you remember that? I know it's been awhile since you've watched it

I think it's five syllables – Is it five seven five? – Anyway, really great movie, I just freaking love the first 30 minutes, it's so funny It's funny throughout but like really funny, I'll call it an indie ish movie – [Both] Five, seven, five is a haiku – What was I saying? Oh, sometimes even the funniest movies by the second half they're not funny anymore

– This one's even better – And I wouldn't say it got better but it didn't get unfunny and that's a hard thing to do with a movie – Made you cry a little bit too – That New Zealand sense of humor is just so delectable, I think it's my favorite – So dry

– It's so, it's my favorite And that's why I like Thor: Ragnarok because Taika also directed that – I love that guy and What We Do in the Shadows, What We Do in the Shadows, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, if you have not done yourself the favor of watching both of those movies, what are you doing, what are you doing with you life? – I would say you can't be sleepy because you have to be in tune to it What We Do in the Shadows, I actually saw it twice I think and I was very sleepy both times It's like you have to have a level of concentration in order to really appreciate it because it's not action, it's dry, dry comedy

– That was one of those movies that experimented with the sleep induction You didn't know that? – No, I didn't – Well, you should've known that and you would've been caffed up for it – It didn't make me sleepy, I was just already sleepy So for me, I hate procrastination because I just hate having an assignment looming and then not making progress on it

Like I don't have to complete something but I have to know that, I have to do enough to know that I can complete it easily Something about the way my brain works, I think with everything that becomes a to do item, especially with tests back in the day, or my haikus, I think the way I interact with those psychologically was I always started from a place, even though I was very diligent student that I was going to fail I just wish that I would've gone to therapy much earlier in life, honestly, to start to unpack these type of things Like I never stopped and thought to myself, okay, the moment you get an assignment for a test, you have this sinking feeling that is a dread that oh yeah, this means automatic failure for me or on the opposite side of it, and sometimes I think I would think, I think I would think, that my standard was perfection and then there was a sinking feeling unless I knew I could achieve perfection I think that rings true for me

Both of those factors together, A, would be great to have talked through with a qualified therapist I think that's something I wish I would've done in college So that being said, the way that I would cope is I would start to study immediately or I think actually a long time ago in an Ear Biscuits, I talked about another example which was just engineering school as an example, my heart was never in it, yet my time and my energy, my blood, sweat and tears was all invested in it just because I was doing it and I had to do it as perfectly as possible So to me, that's very tied to procrastination because then it's, I have no defense, it's my fault if I wait too late and it's like, okay, well, I didn't know how much time it was gonna take for me to know that I could ace this test and I will never have more time than I have right now to know how much time I need So just because you're not a procrastinator, doesn't mean that you're healthy

I think I've just proven that – I mean, in college I was definitely a procrastinator If procrastination is waiting like postponing getting into something, I don't do that as much anymore but the same factors that contributed to procrastination which I think this gets a little bit at Morgan's question like why do people procrastinate? Is how easily distracted I am The main factor is how easily distracted I am So whereas you have a laser focus on things it's kind of like a laser focus like a tube like the way that I picture your attention

– See this? – Is like a, I don't see that at all – You see what I'm doing? – No, because I have such a, there's a tube that's going right to your face – I'm making a flying butterfly with my hands – Underneath the butterfly But like for instance– – That's good, it didn't distract you

I notice this, when we ride together, we haven't been carpooling together that much because we're going to two different gyms and stuff – 'Cause our relationship's on the rocks – Or even the other day when we were getting ready in the– – In the ready room – In the ready room, the wardrobe room – My mom has a ready room

It's an entire room dedicated to her getting ready in the morning – So what we do typically when we're getting ready to shoot some Good Mythical Morning is the writer and producer of that particular episode kind of come in and begin talking through what we're about to shoot Even though we have familiarized ourselves with what we're gonna do it's just like everybody's getting all their ducks in a row especially for the more complex episodes and there was music playing in the room Now the music playing in the room was so quiet that I had forgotten that music was playing in the room – Bobby Gentry, I started playing that music before you get there

– So they come in the room and they start talking to us and I noticed 15 seconds into them talking, you get up, you go over there and you turn the music all the way off And I'm like, oh, music was playing and that music playing which I didn't hear was distracting Link so he couldn't listen to, or when we ride together which is what I was getting to– – Well, first, okay, go ahead, I'll come back to the music but go ahead – This is also a music example, I've noticed that when we are riding in a car if we're talking, you don't want music to be playing at all It's not like, I remember Ben Greenwood's mom used to play music, almost where you were like, is there music on, is the radio on now? I was like what is the point of that right now? Whereas, in my family it's more like we play music where most people would be like why are you playing it that loud and trying to have a conversation at the same time? In my house all the time, like Saturday morning, music starts playing Also most weekday mornings, music starts playing and we're having conversations, we play music while we eat dinner at night and sometimes it's like loud but everybody's on the same page, it's how we interact with each other

So there's music that you're enjoying but you're also in the midst of a conversation But like if me and you are driving down the road and the music is Ben Greenwood's mom level, you have to turn it off before we begin a conversation Now, good, bad or indifferent, but what that does is it highlights the amount of tolerance that you have for anything that might be distracting Now my tolerance is so high for things that might be distracting that I get drawn into them So when I sit down– – That doesn't make sense

– No, what I'm saying is– – If you were gonna say that you never get distracted by things then you would never be drawn off of your task and into them – No My propensity to incorporate those things into my life in a way that, it doesn't compromise my conversation with my wife or with my kids or even a conversation that I would be having with you, especially music because it's the kind of thing you can easily categorize and be like, oh there's music playing, but now I'm having this conversation with Link about this serious thing and I'm not hearing the music anymore What I'm saying is my tendency to leave things on and kind of leave a lot of tabs on my computer open, leave a lot of apps open, what that ends up doing is I've just set the table against myself with a high number of things that could at any point draw me in And it's actually gotten worse as I've gotten older

Back in the day in college, it would be like, I'd put things off, I'd do the classic procrastinations– – Just let me jump in about the music and say that a lot of these things, you know, I'm not gonna take it as a criticism, I'm not gonna take it as you think that I'm lesser because I'm distracted by things, I'm gonna leave that, I'm not gonna take it personal – It sounds like that's how you're taking it – Well, it's hard not to take it that way but I'm not But I just want to go ahead and say that the reason why I turn off the music is for you because you're the one who might get pulled into that and I would hate to do that to you – [Rhett] I appreciate that

– That's not true, by the way I turn the music off because it's distracting It's distracting to me because I started playing the music, I know what it is, so I have a connection to it It's not background music that oh, I walked in the room and it was just there No, it's something I was listening to intently and then I'm like I don't want to pull myself away from it

– That's my point My point is is that, the question was, why do people procrastinate? And I think that it is a direct correlation between your tolerance to, so in other words, if you have a laser focus on things, then you're much less likely to get pulled in to other things that would distract you and keep you from getting into the thing that you want And it may be your anxiety that drew you in in the first place to doing it but I'm saying that once you get into something, what I'm gonna do is I do, the most work that I do at this point that's anything related to a test is sitting down and writing something and I'll sit down and write something but if you were to look at a graph of my time when I say I'm gonna set aside this day to write something, it'll be like, write for 20 minutes, read an article, write for 35 minutes, go check my email and I'm not saying this is healthy, I'm just saying that that's how I approach it now So now it's just a bunch of distractions that get thrown into what I'm doing which prolongs the time that it takes – But that's not procrastination though

– Yeah but in some weird way my tendency to interact with those things ends up impacting, especially creative work, kind of coming back in 'cause if I just go nose down into something and it's like three hours in I'll be like, I can't do this anymore, I need a distraction to like almost fill the tank up again – But procrastination is different So let's talk about, I think in this instance it would be that you're intentionally doing something that is not pressing instead of doing the task that is more pressing, say the thing that you set out to write – And in that moment I am procrastinating Even if I've started it– – Well, taking a brain break or like stepping away so you can step back in is probably an efficiency to a certain point but it's all about motives

Are you not doing it because you don't think you've got anything? Are you looking elsewhere for inspiration that you need or are you avoiding a task? – It's much more carnal than that It's more, there's something else, what is that? It's not like, man I'm getting tired of this, I need to actively make a decision to open a tab Again, that's not how my brain works My brain is like, oh, I've now been reading this article for seven minutes I don't remember making a decision to do that

Do you know what I'm saying? – So do you think subconsciously that is procrastination? – Yeah in that moment it is 'cause it's putting a task off – And I think to read between the lines and to know you would you say it's because the other thing is more exciting? – In that moment, yes – It's more intriguing – Yeah, and I've thought about doing the thing where you put the app on your phone or your computer where you can't get on the internet for a certain amount of time but then I'm like, well a lot of times I'm in the middle of writing something and I'm like, I need the internet and then I'll remember something that I want to buy It really is kind of sad

Again, I don't know why you took what I said personally because it wasn't personal, it's ultimately a compliment in the context of procrastination, because if you looked at what I did in a day that I was trying to be productive, I would've bought three or four things that I don't need, I would have read articles, I would have clicked on an article that was like what do these celebrities look like now That stuff is designed for people with my personality and after I've clicked on an article and then clicked on an article and then clicked on an article, it isn't like I'm sitting around thinking, I'm awesome because I click on all these articles I'm thinking, why can't I just do the thing that I was trying to do? So I think it's a little bit, and I've never been diagnosed with AD/HD but I think that people who, again, we're not doctors or scientists so we don't really know what we're talking about but I have to assume that people who have an attention deficit disorder are much more likely to procrastinate because even if it's not just something that's keeping you from even beginning a task which used to be my problem but now my life is a lot more scheduled and so I'll be like, I need to do this, I'm going to start doing it now but then my road to getting it finished will have all kinds of potholes in it, some productive, most of it not productive So for me, why I procrastinate is because of my attention deficit issues – And Morgan, you're gonna shame him for that? Did we answer the complete question? 'Cause I think when he says, "Why is putting something off "only to have to deal with it all in one go "and in such a short amount of time "much more tempting?" – It's the other things that are tempting

– He's applying a purely logical analysis of procrastination and that's just not how it works either way Plenty of people procrastinate from fear of not being able to get it done so you'd rather do something else to make yourself feel better than something that's gonna make you feel worse like failing in the process of doing it I'm just guessing – Do you want to open another question? – I think we settled that one I don't think I've ever clicked, I may be click bait proofed, not bragging, I'm just saying I don't think I've ever clicked on I'll be more specific, an article related to something I'm reading online

Now don't cheat, you're already looking at the next one – Yeah, yeah, I'm easily distracted – I don't think I ever click on– – I clicked on this next question like it was a clickhole – You get to the bottom of an article and you click on another article? – All the freaking time – I've never once done it

– Why do you think those exist? Do you think it wouldn't be an incredible business model if there weren't a lot of people who were susceptible to it? I mean I am so susceptible to that – That's why I love reading Twitter moments because they're so quick and limited I just don't read articles because they get, I don't like the feeling of getting sucked into things – But here's the thing, this is why we work well together because if we both were like me, there would be a problem and if we were both like you, there would be a problem – But if we had to choose, no

– No, again, we've talked about this before when people ask us about the creative process but like, and again, this is why I don't consider myself a procrastinator because I'm very much an initiator and a starter, it's like I'm the one who wants us to start on something but you're the one who wants us to finish something and I think that our tendencies to get distracted and to be like, alright, sometimes I'll be like, we have seven minutes before this thing starts and I want to start a conversation about a project that you're not ready to talk about because you don't want to talk about it unless we have two hours to talk about it and I'm like, yeah, we've got seven minutes In seven minutes, we may solve the biggest problem – Seven minutes worth of it is how I feel – We may make the breakthrough that we've gotta make in this seven minutes But then sometimes it's like, well, it's not worth to get into these seven minutes because it made us be frustrating

So there's a little bit of a give and take that I think ends up working really well – Read this next one The envelope is open – Jacob asks, "I don't have a question so much "as a burning desire to see the statistics of my life "on a spreadsheet," which we just alluded to – The statistics of my life on a spreadsheet

– "Stupid stuff like words I said the most and least "with an accurate word count "as well as how many breaths I took, among other things" Was it on a podcast that we talked about this exact thing or was it just, where did we talk about this? – I think we did talk a little bit about records of everything but the thing specifically, I don't think we've discussed that he makes me think of here is stuff like words I've said It's interesting that with all the lifestyle data that he would want tracked in statistical form on a spreadsheet that his first examples are stupid stuff like what words I've said the most And now I find myself interested in that too We started to make an observation that we both said a couple of things a lot– – On this show

– On GMM too And it was right off the bat – And we say right off the bat a lot, I noticed it on this show and I think somebody commented we say right off the bat a lot – [Link] Right off the bat – I've been trying to be more conscious of it

– And there was another phrase– – There's quite a few – That we said You say, golly, I noticed that, golly It's like Gomer Pile I think that's one you might want to watch yourself back saying that one a lot

– On this show? – No, on GMM like when you're reacting to something Your go to phrase for exasperation is golly I bet you you say it a thousand times a week – I want to see a golly super cut – I've asked the editors to cut all of them out so they never see it

No, I think they make it through – I do think that this, okay, so I've been reading, it's a long book and I work it in, this is another thing I do that is indicative of my, you could call this procrastination, I read between seven to 10 books at a time I cannot read one book at a time At any given time, there are that many books that I am some of the way through and the majority of them, I probably don't finish So I'm not saying this is a good thing, I'm just giving you the facts of the way my life works

But I'm working in that Sapiens, the sequel to Sapiens, the Homo Deus, and he talks about basically dataists, dataism is sort of the age that we're in right now in terms of the ultimate thing that matters to people is the data and that's how we make decisions And so the person who has the data has the power – So many things can be measured I mean for us as content creators on YouTube, YouTube gives you so much data about everything, about how many people and what types of people are they and how much of an individual video do they watch and when do they stop watching and at what rate do they drop off You've got your phone recording your number of steps and you don't even know it

– Well, and the thing is is that you can get to a place – Or if you're driving – If you get to a place where something isn't even worth doing if you're not gathering the data as it's happening The extreme dataist sort of position is that any problem can be solved with it and I think I'm in this boat I think it's basically the best thing that we've got to go on right now

So if we're gonna be arguing about something like controversial issues like if you get into something like climate change which is very dividing politically, and so what people begin to do is they begin to go to the data and what does the data suggest and the person who has the most data and the most accurate data can win that argument And I think it does apply and it does help us make a lot of decisions about things but for me, when I think about if I were to see a breakdown of the way that I spend my time when I'm trying to work on something I would probably be a little bit ashamed of it I'd be like, that article you read about Danny Bonaduce that led to the article about Danny Bonaduce's son that led to the article about Danny Bonaduce's son's prom date who is a meth addict, I don't know, I made all that up– – You shouldn't have chosen Bonaduce 'cause that's a hard word to say – That wasn't fruitful, that did not contribute positively to my life I also don't like feeding into that whole system that people are making money off of people like me clicking on things

So I think that if I could see this, just like when I came to you and I said, "We have both been saying right off the bat a lot, "especially me, but you been saying it too," that was data that changed how often we say right off the bat which ultimately makes a better podcast because it's just like when you're reading something and you notice that people say the same phrase or the same word, it feels like this isn't great writing, this isn't a great book That guy just said coincidentally twice in that paragraph, hack So I would love to have this power – I remember the thing that we were talking about, we were talking about the number, it was something related to our kids like seeing which of our kids, we weren't talking about how many rolls of toilet paper you go through, I can't remember what it is but it was something from this table that we were talking about about tracking data but we interact with it so much The gem I go to, if you wear your heart rate monitor, they send you a graph of the whole workout and what you did and how many calories you burned, supposedly, and your heart rate and all of this data, then it's supposed to, I find myself looking at it and it provides some motivation

– And this is ultimately why, people are really nervous about this, understandably so, about having some sort of microchip implanted inside your body and there's already people doing it right now and there's people who have a lot of hangups about whether it's a particular way that they see things religiously as if this has, the whole mark of the beast thing and then there's other people who are just very weary of the government and any time that you can be tracked or you can be controlled if you've got some sort of bionic nature to you I get all those concerns but the driving force that is eventually going to move us into transhumanism like we talked about with Zoltan, we didn't talk about it with him but Zoltan Istvan, is that his name? You know the guy that we endorsed for president who continues to be, I follow him on Twitter and I continue to see the stuff that he talks about The thing that's gonna ultimately get us there isn't going to be the convenience of buying and selling, I think it's going to be the fact that the data gathering and processing that the people with transhumanist parts are gonna be able to have So you're gonna have an advantage over somebody else when you can do things like measure your heart rate constantly and the number of breaths that you took and what's happening with the food that you're eating When you can begin measuring all that stuff and it begins listening to you and telling you what you're saying and what you're not saying, you're gonna be a little bit more powerful because you're gonna have access to that data

And that's what gonna ultimately, and people are gonna, the whole privacy thing is just gonna be this huge battle over the privacy thing and people are gonna be super wary about having anything in them that can be tracked They're gonna get over it Eventually, they're gonna get over it and everybody's gonna have it People are gonna fight about it though Potential bloodshed over it, it's gonna get serious but on the other end of it

– Over the privacy debate? – Yeah – So would you like to, I mean you're being served up ads based on conversations you're having with people I mean the technology is already listening to everything we're saying Wouldn't you like to have access to the data just to know how you talk, how many times you say certain phrases? – I would, yeah – It would be kind of cool but it's kind of like, it seems to me a very good thing for cops to wear body cameras because it's a record that holds them accountable because we hold them to a standard of excellence in a job that is so important and that we depend on so much and it has such a sway over society, I'll just leave it at that

– Well, especially when we have reason to believe that people are being taken advantage of in those situations – Absolutely – And so if there's potential for people to be taken advantage of and there is potential and there's plenty of evidence that that happens all the time, then clearly that's only gonna be better for society if we have access to that information and what those body cams are recording – I mean I'd like to hear the argument on the other side as it relates to my personal privacy 'cause I tend to say, well I'm not proud of everything I say and do by any means but I aspire to be the type of person like if anybody saw a transcript of what I said and did that I would be okay with that – What about a transcript of what you thought? – I guess so

I mean you can't control your thoughts, you can control what you do with them oh man that sounds really scary, it does – Okay, but I am fully aware of the fact that this whole transhumanism thing quickly moves to a place where your thoughts are being openly shared Now this gets into some really interesting stuff So I don't know what book it is, what movie it is but I'm sure it's been done where they begin to police your thoughts So basically if you have the thought of committing murder, well, if the cops can know that that's what you're thinking about shouldn't they take action on it? That's kind of the argument and you can see how easily this completely gets out of hand, right 'cause freedom of thought, freedom of, there's this, even freedom of speech is an example, I should be able to say, I should be able to wish death on whoever I want to and as long as I actually don't do that physically, in the United States of America for the most part we have decided that you have the freedom unless you're talking about the president to basically say what you want to but that's kind of in question right now, people are beginning to question that

But the idea that your thoughts are suddenly now transparent to anyone who wants to access them which I think is ultimately where this is all going, is essentially changing the way we see humanity from the hyper individualistic way that we see people now to more of a one organism and there's really interesting writing about this, not that I can remember and point you to 'cause I haven't read enough about it but basically, and it's really scary for us to think about, very scary for us to think about, for lots of good reasons but basically it's the way that a colony of ants communicates with each other and basically, their thoughts are super, super simple and they don't have a, ants don't have a private life, they are part of this organism that is the colony of ants and they're communicating and of course, what they're trying to do is not nearly as complex as what we're trying to do but them having access to each other's thoughts through what's happening with their pheromones and the way that all that works is of great benefit to them There's a lot of people who believe that we're moving quickly to a place where we're treating humanity as an organism and there's some really weird moral things that start coming up because then people start justifying things like well, if we're just an organism well these individual, a bunch of cells that contribute to a body, well if these cells are not contributing or if these cells are cancerous for whatever reason, let's just get rid of those cells and now we've got individuals who, I'm not saying this is something I'm, this is not gonna happen in our lifetime, it's not something I'm looking forward to being ushered in, but I think with technology the way that it's progressing it's an inevitable destination for humanity – Well, you've scared me to definitely back off I mean even when I think about, not my thoughts which is very disturbing, I've got disturbing thoughts and they don't become speech for good reason, there are exceptions and I try to learn my lesson but even stepping back from that and saying, well, a transcript of what I've said because I don't have anything to hide, even in a transcript form, it's like I've texted enough people to know you can get in trouble with misinterpretation of just raw words on a page So even that seems dangerous

– What if I could know, what if every person could know every single thing that every other person was thinking? Now, if that was suddenly, if we pressed a button and that happened, given the way that we've built the society, there would be a lot of, an incredible initial shock, just like an amazing shock, if all of a sudden your wife could know everything that you think and vice versa, there would be this shock But don't you think that after the initial explosion of realization that we could be at a healthier place as a society if everybody knew what everybody was thinking? – Piecing that back together would take decades – But ultimately, what if it took decades? What if that was the new reality? – I believe that there are people on a spectrum of I'll just call it purity like purity of mind, purity of motive, like I certainly know that there are people who are motivated more by love or greed just to take two examples I really enjoy reading about Mr Rogers, can't wait for that movie to come out

It's so interesting to read about this guy who the way that he talked about himself in interviews was a level of unself aware pure motive of love that I wish I had that I read articles about Mr Rogers in order to be inspired to make decisions to become more like someone who he was naturally – But what if you were able to tap into Mr Roger's thoughts and you found out that it was all an act? I'm not saying it was, I'm not trying to be cynical– – I'm convinced that it was not an act

– But what if it was? – No, so my point is because I'm convinced that it's not before I take your hypothetical I'm saying that's what would, that's the first thing that would come out was how many people were, there would be a ranking of purity of motives across politics certainly It would be something that would be on the ballot, the data suggests this purity of motive You'd have another indicator of how owned a politician was that wasn't just like the pork barrels or whatever you call it but then it goes to everybody I think there would be a ranking of where everybody was at on a character scale – But you could only get that if you had access to the thoughts, is that what you're saying? – I think so, yes

– 'Cause I think what we ask for a lot of times I think one of the reasons that the internet has become a genre of entertainment and vlogging has become a genre of entertainment that's not going away anytime soon is authenticity We want authenticity, we want transparency and I realize that there's this whole I'm not saying that privacy's not important, all I'm saying is that there's so many times where you really just wish you knew what someone's actual motives were and of course in a society where we don't have any way to penetrate beyond just what people say and maybe if we're really skilled we can kind of interpret some of their body language or whatever, it's invasive, if you're able to actually get into somebody's thoughts against their will, obviously, it's super invasive but if it was just a given that the way that the world worked is that you could know what everyone was thinking in the same way that you could know what everyone is doing, it's interesting just to think about what existence would become Because right now, one out of every 100 people is a sociopath, right, they don't have the ability to empathize with people but they're really good at seeming normal, you don't know the people who are that way in your life If you knew how everybody was thinking, you'd know I guess the question is then what does that person do? What does the person who's got the thoughts that would cause them to be guilty in the eyes of other people do at that point? They're kind of trapped

– Sounds like a Black Mirror episode, like the one I have not seen about the human Yelp reviews but it would be much more definitive It wouldn't be people reviewing their interactions with you which again would be a big indicator of character but it's like people would have reason to lie – Well, there's a couple of Black Mirror episodes that explore this There's one in one of the first couple of seasons that explores this essentially a score that you have based on the way that you're ranked by other people – That's the one I was talking about

– Yeah and so but then there's the other one which is I think in this most recent season which is about compatibility with people and it's like a simulation that's running and it's pretty awesome – Well, you just spoiled one 'cause that's the one you and I watched together We can't say which one that is 'cause that's a spoiler – But without a doubt, every single thing that we're talking about can be horrifically nightmarishly abused and probably will be– – But your point is on the other side, like if you could fast forward through the pain of transition wouldn't we all want to know, I think only the people who have nothing to hide which doesn't everybody have something to hide? But if it's a small enough percentage of who you are that no one has pure character, not even Mr Rogers, but I don't know, I think he might be one of the, then on the other side it's like, okay, we're gonna elect this person because this is their character, this is what their character comprises of

– We know without a doubt that the way things are done right now in terms of how we elect our leaders is not a good system We know right now that it's based on the amount of finances you have, it's based on how well you are at marketing yourself– – Showmanship – It might be based on how well you can lie We have a lot of things in our system right now that reward a lot of things that we don't want in our leaders So I'm just saying that as crazy as it would be to get to a place like that, if I were to tell you that, you know what, I've been to heaven and I know what heaven is like and heaven is a place where everyone is completely transparent and everyone communicates telepathically with one another and you are exactly who you are in all your raw glory and we all exist in peace and harmony with one another, you might be like, oh, I can see that as how heaven would be and it would be like, well technology through a lot of ups and downs is eventually going to get us to a place where we're communicating seamlessly with one another as a human organism

– But I think a perfect knowledge of everyone's character would restratify society in such a way that, 'cause just because– – Well, that already happens – It would be different, it would be a reshuffle and I think that the people who aren't trustworthy or have ulterior motives or who act upon greed much more than love, you start to have a strata that way and then you've got greedy people with less money and what are they gonna do? They're gonna become dangerous – You're assuming that transparency would lead to a place where we were reordering our society and the people at the top would be the ones with the best motivations I don't necessarily think that transparency would lead to that, I think when somebody was screwing you over, you would know it but that wouldn't necessarily keep somebody from screwing you over because I think the same things– – Well, I think for politics, for elected officials, it would be, that would be the first thing that would change, I would hope So then you'd have people with, the more impure your character was, the least likely that you would be elected to anything, trusted, and then it would create this underground of nasty

– I want to believe that you're right but we have more access to people's personal lives and their information and their background than we ever did and we seem to, as opposed to holding people to a higher standard, we're holding our politicians to a lower standard than we ever did You remember back in the day, back in the day being like 10 years ago when if you found out that a person running for president had like a maid working at their house who was an illegal alien, they were completely out of the race? That was it He had an undocumented worker working at his house and that right there was it, you were out, you could not run for president That was a scandal 10 years ago Think about the stuff that people are willing to tolerate now

It's crazy the way things have changed We know so much more about what people have done and we just seem to not care – So then why do you want to know even more? Because you're painting a different trajectory which is even worse – I'm not painting a trajectory in terms of what I think, I'm just saying that I think whenever things start, there's an inevitable direction that technology moves us into and you just kind of have to know this is where we're going There's so many Luddites who just want to keep pushing back technological advances, it's eventually gonna get there

It's like pushing back on an ocean that is slowly eroding a coastline, you can't change it, you can build a wall, you can build an eddy, you can build whatever those things are called, I should know, I'm a civil engineer but I can't think of it right now but eventually all that stuff is gonna get washed away and so I'm not saying you should just let it all happen, you should do it smartly but you shouldn't deny that it's actually gonna happen We're gonna be transhumanists, man, it's going to happen unless we destroy ourselves – Let's look at this not through the political lens but through the lens of family for a second – The lens of family – We make fun, if you listen to the top of our conversation, our dad conversation, we find comedy in how selfish we are as dads and it's cathartic to joke about it because it's our way of saying we're far from perfect dads

You make the whole freaking three point competition about you at a certain point – That's right – And it's funny because it's true And I aspire to be someone who is so honest There's an appeal to podcasting because I think there's a lot of successful podcasters who just they don't seem like they're hiding anything

I'm sure they still are but it's very intoxicating and engrossing to listen in on a conversation with somebody who doesn't seem to be holding anything back But if my children knew exactly what I thought about them in a particular moment, they could listen to the podcast and know some of it 'cause I joke about it and I do joke with them about it and I don't think they would be crushed to know that there are plenty of times when I'm annoyed to no end by them and I don't want to be around them I don't think they would be surprised but I think it would hurt really bad if they could experience those thoughts in the moment – Initially – 'Cause by the way, they feel the same way about me with the eyes rolling and the comments that are made

It goes both ways and so let's explore that The last thing I would want to do is crush the heart of my children because I love them – You would only crush their hearts because we live in a society where we've never broken through that where it's crazy, our entire biology is based on the fact that the only thing that we kind of have to ourselves is our thoughts We haven't evolved in a place where our thoughts, other than the ways that our thoughts are expressed through emotions or with facial expressions and those things that we've learned, but there's a very important core which is in there and it's protected and it's our own and we value it probably more than anything That's why there's a lot of people who are listening right now who are just really uncomfortable with the whole conversation and are gonna comment, have already commented, I don't like when you guys talk about this kind of stuff, talk about stuff that's lighter hearted, whatever and I completely understand that and you're not wrong because this is an uncomfortable thing to talk about and it would be really uncomfortable for you to suddenly know exactly what your kids think about you and to know that they also know what you think about them but what you feel about your kids and what your kids feel about you is what everybody feels about their family

– And the reason why I bring it up is because my love for my kids and their love for me is not in question so I bring it up as a thought exercise because even when you love somebody with your whole heart there's still things that if they knew exactly what you were thinking it would hurt their feelings in the moment – Again, there would be this nuclear bomb that goes off in everyone's brain the moment that they had access to each other's thoughts and we'd be like, I can't believe that that person thinks that, that's the kind of thing that you think about I can't look at you the same anymore but in that moment, you've also released your thoughts to someone else and they're thinking the exact same thing about you, everybody would kind of realize, oh, we're all pretty nasty, we're all pretty good and pretty nasty and there are some exceptionally good people and there are some exceptionally bad people and then there are kind of most of us and I don't know what the outcome would be It would probably be pretty bad for those exceptionally bad people – And then they'd all get together, that's what I was getting at, in a new strata and the bad people would revel, oh, we can now band together, I know how bad you are, we're gonna do some bad, bad stuff

– We'd send them all to Australia like they did back in the day when they sent all the inmates to Australia So we'll do that again – Yeah, let's run that by the Aussies when we go down there at the end of July – Wow, okay, this has been quite a conversation Thank you to Morgan and Jacob for asking these questions that led us down this rabbit hole which got a little dark, made some of you very uncomfortable

– I do think that within the safety of loving relationships an effort to bring some sort of conclusion to at least part of this conversation– – And be a little positive, to end on a positive note – I think so Well, aspirational at least, I aspire to be increasingly honest within those loving, trusting relationships because I believe that it leads to growth and it leads to understanding and knowing Truly loving somebody that you don't fully know is and what is to fully know somebody but to get closer to fully knowing somebody is to more fully love them I think you have to, when you love somebody, you've got to love the warts too

– And if you can get to a place where you have radical honesty, if we could get to a place as a society where we have radical honesty, then the inevitable transition into whatever the next version of humanity is which will someday definitely include the ability to read each other's thoughts, it won't be that big of a leap The more you have to hide, the more frightened you are of that moment But that moment's gonna come It's not gonna come in our lifetime If you're listening to this in the year 2018 you don't have to worry about this

– Well, it might come when you die, it might come for all of us when we die – When you escape the simulation – Or depending on what you believe when you die I would like to commit to being more honest and I'll get to it eventually Get it? Get it? – I'm in agreement but not really

– We'll talk at you next week Thanks for listening and processing this with us using #earbiscuits – Oh, and those of you who know the books that have been written about some of the stuff that we kind of touched on, I'm sure there's some really good science fiction about what we've touched on, recommend that to us with #earbiscuits because I definitely want to read some of that stuff that better explains this You know who you are To hear this Ear Biscuit in its entirety so you don't miss a thing, follow the links in the description to Art 19, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere else podcasts are available

– [Link] To watch more Ear Biscuits, click the video on the left – [Rhett] To watch more from This is Mythical, click the video on the right – [Link] And don't forget to subscribe by clicking the circular icon – [Rhett] Thanks for being your mythical best

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