Link’s New Interest

Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time I'm Rhett

and I'm Link this week at the round table of dim lighting, that's right We're back in our zone We're back at the table, sitting a little further apart When we were at the other house– Too close

A little too close, a little too close I mean, we were not six feet apart best because me and you are a pod We're never six feet apart, let's be honest We're not, we don't practice social distancing between the two of us, but this is a slightly more social distance We are a partnership of creativity

We got pod And that's why we're here We're a creative pod, who does a podcast This week at the round table of the dim lighting We're gonna discuss our relationship with board games

I thought you're gonna stop at relationship So many others thought the same thing I'm sure we'll talk about our relationship And there's a number of relationships that are impacted by this board game conversation If you don't like it board games, this podcast is for you

And if you do like board games, this podcast is also for you And if you're indifferent to board games and you have sort of a, "I mean, yeah, I'll take it "If somebody offers a relationship with board games," this podcast is for you And by this podcast, we mean this episode and the whole show Is a podcast episode, a podcast? It's an episode

I gotta ask you another question because I didn't know the answer to that one I just wanna sweep it under the rug You have an ants problems at your house It is so hot, I mean, California is freaking burning It's sad

Like I've looked at, and it's so hot Like last week, it was record breaking temperatures in our zone, like 105 degree days And that's the interesting thing that we discovered about California that we didn't know until we moved here Back in North Carolina, September rolls around, and yet it's still hot, but it's starting to change It's starting to say, "Okay okay okay, enough already

" Yeah, creeping up on fall But in Southern California, September is like, "We just getting started y'all" I remember the first year we moved here– August, September is really hot typically Yeah, I remember being 115 degrees in October in Burbank And I was like, "I didn't think this is what it was supposed to be

" So yeah, it's super hot– But it's hotter than normal The fires are everywhere And I think that's why like all of these insects are now inside of my house You know it's hot when it's too hot for an insect I mean, can an insect, they're used to the a hundred degree temperature

They can do They have the exoskeleton Apparently they're sensitive when it gets to that temperature 'Cause I think that is the reason There's just, like I looked at in Jade's dog bowl and I went over there because I knew there was still food in it

But she was like, she'd bark and she looked at me And I was like, "You're asking for food, "but you've already got food" Well, you know where this is going I'll walk over there There's more ants in the bowls and there is food

And then she doesn't, she's not, ants are not on the menu Nope, she did not wanna eat the ants So like, I clean out the whole bowl And Christy starts, she found the spray, I didn't even know I had it Oh, we got lots of sprays because we deal with this

What we– All the time We got, I mean, I got natural sprays that don't actually harm the humans and the pets And then when things get real bad, all bets are off and we harm everyone, including us unnatural sprays She let loose with this spray I mean, I've totally relocated Jade's bowl to somewhere else because I know that these ants are talking to each other

Cause there's a whole– Pheromones There's a whole line of ant They like make a trail Trail of scent And then it's going up and it's going like through something, there's no hole next to the window, but somehow– Oh, they don't need a hole

They don't need a hole, they're just coming in I think that they can just talk about teleportation It's like they copper filled it They're the ones who know how to teleport They copper filled it right through the wall sometimes

This morning, I went back into my bathroom to take a shower and brush my teeth and get ready to come in here I appreciate you doing that by the way Keeping up with regular hygiene Keeping it fresh I mean I'm still shaving and everything

I'm shaving under my beard and right on my cheeks where there's some weird hairs that grow up above the line Oh really? You wanna have that eyebrow beard connection happening? Well Jessie, I don't think that would ever happen But I have a couple of hairs that are like, "Should we see if we could go up higher on the face?" Yeah, yeah, It's like– And I'm like, "No, you can't" Those hairs are like the first ants They're like, "Whoa– They're frontiers men

It's cooler in here, there's dog food, I'm gonna excrete some sort of path Or maybe they just walk back And then, but, my thing is, if I get every ant that's here and I corral them all together and then I spray and mop them up and throw them in the trashcan, there's no, then there's none to go back and communicate But I might just, I might get them confused with bees and is it some pheromone trail that they're dropping? Because I'm also spraying that I think I got it covered, but my point is I went back upstairs

I get up, I mosey downstairs, I drink my coffee I do some meditating, do some exercising I drink my breakfast Then I come back upstairs and I get ready Brush my teeth, take a shower

It was at that point this morning that I looked on my bathroom counter And this is the second floor of my house This is, I mean, there's never any food up here You don't do a bedroom eating Never, never

As a policy? We just don't There's never any food upstairs in our bedroom Not like a secret chocolate stash or anything No, no secrets, you got a secret side of chocolate stash Yeah, because I got chocolate in my– You got night chocolate? I'm like a middle aged woman reading a romance novel

I got dark chocolate bars in my bedside table because– Well, you better watch out 'cause the ants are gonna find it The kids– You gotta kid free stash Yeah, they'll find the chocolate And yes, it is safe for my dog I understand that it's deadly to dog, but Barbara can not get in there and– She's done open chores

She's never tried I go back up there and then right there on my kitchen counter where I left it, like I do every morning is my grinder You know what I'm talking about? Your grinder? My teeth insert thingy that– Keeps you from grinding Keeps my teeth from grinding– I would call that a mouth guard not a grinder– A mouth guard You get confused

I call it my grinder, 'cause it, I grind it instead of grinding my teeth against each other Well, it's easy to, say number of syllables, and also doesn't lead people to incorrect conclusions Just call it a mouth guard You'll seem like Steph Curry You know where this is going, ants all over my grinder

A bunch of them And I'm like, Oh my gosh And so I'm rinsing off the mouthpiece and I'm getting all these ants go down in the flood of my sink and I'm– Do feel bad– And I'm raking them in there Do you feel bad in that moment, that they're all drowning? No, I'm angry I'm like, this has got to stop

Do you take pleasure in murdering them though No, I guess the thought does cross my mind 'Cause I do It's like, what are they, are they feeling, I know they're not feeling anything Christy walks into that moment

And I was like, "Look at this" She's like, "God, why are they on that?" And I'm like, "Cause it's like, I spit" They wanna eat my spit It's different They will, ants will congregate around, it isn't just food sources or sugar

Sometimes it's electronics Like there's something about the vibration of a certain like– Based on– They'll find a walkie talkie and they'll get on that Based on the mouthpiece If I lay still enough in my bed, am I gonna wake up with a mouth full of ants? Is that how bad things have got? You'd probably have to die first? Or at least be rendered unconscious for a long period of time Also rats can eat your toes when you're unconscious

Or your nose If you have a rat problem So do you have ants crawling all over your house? It's funny because we started noticing ants earlier in the summer And like, we've got the driveway, that's got like the white wall on one side And so very often as I'm kind of leaving the drive, leaving during the morning or walking up and down the driveway, there's all kinds of trails that they will create on that wall– And you can see it

And so that's when I'm like, "Oh, they're active again" I've tried so many different things Oh, excuse me For some reason I picked up a Dr Pepper on the other side and I'm drinking it And the other side– The other side, you cross it over and how do we know? I almost died

The other side of the building is what I meant But I thought that this year they were gonna be worse because I started seeing them earlier and they, and one morning Shepherd was like, "Dad, there's all kinds of ants in the guest bathroom" But it hasn't been that bad But the thing that we've noticed is spiders Spiders too

And flies, the other night– Flies? Before we got ready to eat dinner, Jessie had left the door open for Barbara to go out and she left it open for too long You know what, I have seen a few flies in my house I take that back So we're getting ready to eat dinner And Jessie's like, "Could you kill some of those flies?" 'Cause she knows me, I'm the fly assassin

She knows I take a certain amount of pride in my work and you know my technique slapping above them and trapping them You anticipate their exit– And exit right into my hand And you slap right at that spot Now I proceeded to before we eat, in approximately a 12 minute period murder seven flies in my kitchen and there were still three flying around There was a total of 10 that we found in the kitchen

Now and Jessie was like, "What is happening?" I was like, "It's so hot" They feel that AC coming out and they're like, "Ooh, it's nice in there" They come in there Now– I bet somebody got a mouthpiece To get back to this, what I began to do and really upsets my wife

And I don't quite understand it I begin to talk junk to the flies And so what I'm doing is I like, I take a couple of them out like the fat ones that are easy and slow And then we start getting down to the nimble ones What are the fat ones full of? Life, I think they've just been around

I think there's a life cycle That would be a mosquito I don't know how long flies are alive It can't be more than a few weeks And I think that those big ass flies are at the end of their life cycle and they kind of, they go into, they go inside somewhere and they get slow and they become easy targets

But when it gets down to those last three or four flies and they're smaller and they're more nimble I begin to say, "Hahahaha, you've made it this far "You think you're out of the woods "You've seen your comrades go down one by one" You say this out loud? Yes

I begin to speak to them I think you're, okay And I say, "Here's the thing "These, my friends are your last moments on earth "Make the most of it

" And Jessie's like, "Please shut up" She's like, "Don't talk that way "It makes me feel bad about the fly" You're like a– I'm like, "You're the one "who asked me to kill them woman" You're a blood lusting, zealot, despot

I think it's the fact that I don't believe in doing harm to living beings in general and especially ones that can like comprehend the difference between life and death or pain and not pain And it's not just a stimulus Let's just say mammals, you don't like to kill a mammal, right? Yeah, I do not like to kill a mammal No, I don't like the idea of mammals getting killed Yes, I'm a meat eater Yes, it's hypocritical

We'll get to that in 10 years Okay, but back to– Mark your calendar Don't worry, we'll get to it But with flies– They're an easy target It feels like I can take a little bit of my aggression out

I mean, everybody's got aggression You kind of need to deal with it some way And I feel like– I bite a pillow The pillow can't die I mean, what happened– I grind on my grinder

When I slap the hell out of that fly, and dies and I throw him in the trash I'm like, "I just did something" I mean that fly was gonna be alive for another week maybe Did you feel better? Yeah, I do But my wife makes me think a little too much about it

She's like, "I don't like it "when you start talking to them like that" And I'm like, but I do You could just leave the room and let me talk junk to the flies The weird thing is that– I'm the Lord of the flies They don't think about it

They can't communicate And they don't have emotions associated with being slap murdered So the disturbing part is that you're kind of, you're putting the things on them that might deter others from then killing them But you're like, you're slathering that on them Hey, feel this, think about what I'm about to do to you

I'm talking to them like I'm killing humans Because it seems more substantial That's why it's troubling Let me just, okay I'm gonna tell you– And I'm on Jessie side

Okay, can I take, one additional little tangent, you're gonna, I don't know what you're gonna think about this idea, but last night we were watching the most recent season of– If you're gonna say that you then eat the fly I don't wanna hear it Last night we were, I'm just trying, this is my mind I'm open– Is this another reality TV? I'm opening my mind and my heart to you and to you And I know being vulnerable can get you in trouble, but I'm going for it, okay So I was watching the latest season of Married at First Sight, with Jessie

And I don't like the people this season I like them less than I didn't like the people last season or hate them more than I hated the people last, I actually started liking some of the people in the previous season, but I don't like any of these couples yet And there's five couples for the first time ever five So you're talking about killing them What? No, what I told Jessie as I was like, what do you think in the future? I think there might be a feature where you get so upset with the characters on a reality show that you can like press a command into the device that you're watching

And they'll like die on screen just for your own personal satisfaction And they won't be a part of the show anymore That level of interaction, but they don't really die It's just like a sh, it's first like a first person shooter But it's the show that you're watching

You're like, "I hate that character so much" Or I hate this couple and you press a button and they both go and they fall down and die on the show And I was like, I know this demented, but I hate this one couple in particular He cringed, made me cringe so hard that I wanna hurt them And I know that's wrong

But if I see it as just the thing that's happening in media, like in video games and it's not real, it's all just portrayed and acted It feels like it would be okay, Bring this to your therapist And then once But what do you think about that feature? It could, maybe it's just, you could tickle the characters Logistically it doesn't work

No, but in the future they can do anything If it was like on a touch screen– You're not the only one watching a show, is what I'm saying But your feed is your feed and you tickle the person They laugh on your feed It's interactive, it's personalized

And you poke them hard enough? It's like a voodoo doll and they get hurt So you want to have personalized VR, basically it's well, it's a personalized reality show Yeah, that I can interact with It's like a video game It's a video game, yes

It's a video game, but it's a reality show I think this is gonna happen But where you were just going with the VR, I think a VR game in which you're in a kitchen and you're killing flies with your two VR hands That's just a phone app Well, I guess, no– You gotta be VR

You gotta have that I'm gonna make that game Fly, fly, assassin, fly Assassin's creed I'm gonna jump on that train I don't kill any flies in my house 'cause Jade kills them

That's the only reason she gets– Jade kills flies? She's seven inches tall Does she kill the ones that are above her? She waits for them to come down and they always do And she kills them? Yeah, she bites them and then they're on the ground and she sniffs them And I think she eats when I'm not looking How reliable is she? 'Cause if we could work together– I'll rent her out to you

I'll go for the high, she'll go for the low Yeah, yeah, that could be– No fly is gonna escape us You'd be an exterminating doggy man duo We're gonna talk about board games, but we do want to remind you, if you watched GMM, you know about this already, votelikeabeastcom

This is a website that we put together because we are really trying to motivate people to take part in the election this year Yeah, I've, you know it's, I remember back when we were at Buies Creek Elementary School, I guess we were in eighth grade It was the Clinton, it was when Clinton won the presidential election 92 that would have been– So Clinton Bush– Had been a freshman year Was it? Who did he run against? It was Bush going for a second term

Yeah, yeah, the first Bush Herbert Walker And I remember being really into that Like all the kids in the school voted– In school-wide election School-wide election, it was very exciting

And I don't remember being in that heated either It was just fun You know, it's like, this is not fun, but for the first time since that election, I actually feel like, "Oh my gosh this matters" Now of course I've voted– For the first time since 92 This is Lincoln not been really been paying attention

I mean, you know that elections matter But it's very palpable to me this time around And there's just a level of urgency that I haven't felt before– Well, I think a lot of people will say that because– And I don't think that's true, but that is– No, no, no, I think, no, think about how much political discourse– Let me clarify what I think was true I think all elections are extremely important That's what I mean

But there is something about this election for me personally, that I'm the most engaged I've ever been– And I think you speak for a lot of people What I'm getting at is the reason you speak for a lot of people is because many people who didn't care at all about politics And I'm not saying you didn't care all about politics, but you're not really a politically motivated person But a lot of people who were in that boat have seen what's happened in our country over the past four years Think about how much we talk about the President in a way that we've never talked about a president

The news is so dominated by political discourse We're even more polarized than we were four years ago And so a lot of people are like, "Ah, I guess I'm gonna be a part of this process" And we still the same thing And on Good Mythical Morning, there are certain, we don't get political on the show by and large, it's like we try to preserve that space to be an escape from, I don't know– You get that in certain places

Like if you find yourself witnessing or being a part of like a Twitter war or some sort of ugly back and forth on Facebook, we don't wanna bring that into Good Mythical Morning I don't wanna bring that type of energy into my life personally, but we did want to do something to mobilize everyone to vote And to help make the each person's decision, to enable their decision as much as possible, whatever their decision may be– Voting Like a Beast goes beyond the really important first step, which is just registering to vote and being ready to vote, which is important So you can do that at Vote Like a Beast But the sort of the next layer that we think is important is informing yourself

Because you, as a citizen who is eligible to vote, the most clear way that you can actually let your voice be heard, according to the issues that you find important is by exercising your right to vote And a lot of times people are just like, "Oh, my vote really doesn't count "It kinda gets lost in the mix" But the collective power of our voices is incredibly important The collective power of the vote consists of individual voters like you

And when you can make the connection between what you believe and what you find to be important and what you would like to see happen in your country, to the candidates who have policies that they've laid out publicly, that makes you an informed voter So that do we have tools on the site that help make those connections Profiles of candidates We link out to resources that we've kind of brought together aggregated into one place to make you have the option of being an informed voter to the point where you can actually take a voter guide into the ballot box, if you're voting in person, or you can have it right there when you're voting by mail So you can make choices that are according to your interests and how you are informed about the issues

So it's all in one place We try to make it as simple as possible to empower you to vote according to your conscience, that's votelikeabeastcom We invite you to check it out and share that with people It's nonpartisan, go for it

Vote Like a Beast Let's talk about the shirt that you're wearing Have you joined a softball team? No Have you ever thought about it? I'm open to anything now that involves like getting out and like playing with people, whenever the time comes that I can do that again

Okay, softball it is So it might be softball and I've got the shirt, the Mythical softball team, join up now You also can get a pinot, mythicalcom I think it's technically the baseball team, but you know what, the rules are is almost exactly the same

The balls are bigger Balls are bigger And listen, you can pick a bigger ball, always do that Softball over baseball, mythicalcom

Mythicalcom, rep you boys when you're out there on the diamond and bring the diamond with you wherever you go Okay, so let's get into board games I wanted to talk about this 'cause I'm on a journey Okay, I know we're all on a journey, but I'd like to think that I am on a very specific and special

Everybody thinks their journey is the most important one That's what makes you human And I've come to an intersection that involves board games We talked about our vacations, a few episodes back And the one thing that I kept from you, because it was so special to my heart

I just didn't know if I wanted to share Was, well, really we ran out of time 'Cause I think we ended up talking about probably reality TV Yeah, I'm sure it was We are not a board game playing family, but Christy packed these board games

I didn't even know we had And I'm like, you know what? I saw a couple of board games And the first one that we ended up playing was Codenames And the reason why is because we play Codenames, I learned Codenames at your house in your monthly game night, which is currently on COVID hiatus And I was like, you know what? This isn't a, I would not call that a board game

I call it a party game But I think I'm, I don't have the terminology right, 'cause I'm just beginning of my– There is as a board though There is a board For those of you don't know how Codenames works Well, I can't explain it

It's a verbal game where you're divided into two teams So with our family, it was Gracie was there with us And so it was three against three And I think she brought this game action I was like, "Oh, I love this game

" Because it's not a strategy game It's a verbal game where you're like giving clues, I'll try to quickly explain the rules And it probably won't mean anything to you So I'll make it quick But basically you have a board in front of you that has a series of words on it

You put cards down and it's one word per card And they're in a mosaic And you are trying to get your team to guess the words that are associated with your team and not guess the words that are associated with the other team And the more that, and you can only give one word clues And so you're trying to come up with, when it's your turn, and basically you have one person who is the clue giver for that round for the team

And you're trying to come up with one word that will connect as many of those words on the board that are your words So if it was like– Saturn, space and telescope, you might say astronomy, but if you had Saturn and space and you and I are the clue givers for our opposite teams, I also know which words are yours And if I had Venus– Venus was yours, I can't, I could say three astronomy And that means three of the words on the board could be associated with astronomy And then everyone on my team, verbally processes and it's kind of torturous to then give the clue and listen

But it's very fun I believe it to be It's a great, great game I believe it to be the best It is the best game that we have played at game night

Yeah, it's good for a party There's not a lot of strategy involved There's a lot of interplay between all the players So we started playing that– There's Codenames pictures as well, which is the same thing but– Oh, a sequel You ever played that, I thought it as well

I've never played that It's the same exact thing, except it's pictures instead of words The rules are exactly the same And what you're trying to, in the way you're giving clues is exactly the same, but you're trying to get them to guess these pictures And it's weird because it will be like these weird symbolic sort of mosaic type symbol pictures that– Are open to interpretation

Open to interpretation So you have to find what your partner and your team is thinking And that's great We were having a lot of fun and it was like, "Oh my gosh, "this is exactly what I hoped our vacation will be" Our family has gathered around a table

We're playing a game together and everybody's happy Well, we don't own Codenames Break up the board games We don't own Codenames And yeah, because I've never enjoyed board games

I'll get into that more But then there were two nights of playing Codenames and boy, every– Everybody was into it There was food, there was drink There was music, there was Codenames There was togetherness

Alcohol for the whole family The whole family Jade was drunk off heart Very AS And then I'm looking over there and I'd seen this other game

And I was like Catan, or is it Katon? I think Katon is the correct pronunciation, but Catan is what– I was like, this is Settlers of Catan I didn't know we own this And it was a brand new game Was it junior or irregular? Regular, Christy had bought this thing And so the third morning after the two nights of Codenames, I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna open this up

Never been played, fresh out of the box I was reading about it I was like, we're going to do this We're going to do this Now I had heard about this game and I'm like, this is not gonna be for me

This is a strategy game I've always hated strategy I've never had a good experience with a strategy game And again, we'll get, we can, I'm curious about your past and your perspective, which I think is different than mine, but we can go into the reasons why, but I'm like, you know what, It was such a good experience I want this quintessential strategy board game and we should give it a shot

It's an intricate board We got punch, we got to pull everything out and set it up for the first time Lando, even if he can't follow the game because he's 10 years old, he'll enjoy setting it up Well, actually he did enjoy playing the game and followed just like anybody else So he was as good as me

And we had a great experience playing what I would call Settlers of Catan But the box just says, Catan, How long did it take? Because we were learning and they do a really good job of like, if you're just learning, you kinda skip ahead a little bit They kinda prime the game a little bit for you So you have the momentum of the beginning Have you ever played it? Yeah

I had never, ever played it I'd only heard of it And I think we, it was like an hour and a half, maybe almost two hours And I loved it The reason why I loved it was 'cause, I mean, you're like, you trade with people in order to like, to settle this land called Catan

We settled on it being Catan In the Neil house, we call it Catan I think that's fine I think that might be right, I don't know You build roads, you build settlements and then you turn them into cities and then it, you have to do it by like trading and sheep for brick

And you're trading with people and there's some strategy involved, but it's not too crazy I mean, I, we were, just as a flashback, when Christy and I were first married before we started having kids We were invited to, we had these friends, an older couple They had some kids who were like middle-schoolers and they said, "We want you to come over and play Risk with us" And it was like the worst night of my life

They were so into it I didn't know how to play And I just don't, at that night, I concluded, you know what? I don't, I can't get this, it's very frustrating It lasts forever I just don't have a mind for strategy

I don't have a strategy mind, you know what, it's my shortcoming, I'm not gonna blame it on them, but they are really into it And it's a little bit alienating And why has this taking forever? Let's just talk Risk is his own is his own thing We used to– So just to complete my thought, I thought I would hate, I was like really proud of myself, because here I am doing a strategy game and it seems like everybody's involved

And I'm like, I'm actually following this Turns out when I looked online to find other games like Catan, that we could also play, it's categorized as a light strategy game So that kinda– Yeah, there's not a lot to it That's knocked down my ego a little bit I think it's fun

Now, speaking of Risk, because, we used to play, like me and my father-in-law, my brother-in-law and like an assorted bunch whoever happened to be around Sometimes it was my wife's cousin that was there as well, when they were in town Would play these really intense, long games of Risk And the thing about Risk is, the games can last for hours It's not, I mean, we would sometimes go in and just like three or four hour long games

'Cause it kept going back and forth and everyone who was playing, like you think I'm competitive I was easily the least competitive in this group, between my father-in-law and my brother-in-law and my wife's cousin As long as everybody's into it, that's great No, but what would happen is, and this is why I wanna get back to asking you about, 'cause this maps onto like, the way my family plays games, it would get my father-in-law and my brother-in-law, would sometimes, I was like, "They're gonna fight, they're finally gonna fight" You know what I'm saying? Like fist fight

'Cause it was so intense It would get so intense And like you do these things that like with Risk, you have the option of like, I'm gonna team up with this guy and we're gonna sabotage you and we're gonna take you out And a lot of times we would do that to my father-in-law, because he was the best at the game He's been playing for a long time, you know how he's so competitive

And so– That made, nothing makes you angry than if you get teamed up against him, there's nothing, there's little you can do And I was always just kinda like, a little bit like Switzerland I didn't start in Switzerland, that's not a great strategy But I'm really competitive, but I would just kinda play it I was just like, "This is entertaining because "they're so passionate about this

" And if you go to somebody who's like, they've got their strategy down You can't just, like that couple, did you a disservice by inviting you into a game that can be as intense as Risk and not like picking up on your signals that you were not into it or that maybe we should like play it in a more inviting way It reminds me of the story of when we, back in 19, oh not, it was 2003 probably, when we were on our staff training to go on staff with Campus Crusade Yeah, we went down to Florida So we were there like taking seminary classes for a summer

And then also being trained in like everything we were gonna do And we became really good friends with Eric and Natalie who were from Tennessee and the six of us really got along We're all basically newlyweds I would say We were newlyweds and, and we just, we all liked each other And so we connected with them probably more than anybody at staff training

And we got into playing, not a board game, but a game, party game Catch Phrase And the reason why we played that, 'cause by that point, again that was around the same time as the Risk incident And like in college, we would play Risks some Like there were people who liked Risk And now I was like by the, I was became convinced that like, none of this was for me, none of these board games, strategy games, but party games like Catch Phrase where it's like, it's quick and it's verbal and it's fun

And then it's over And you can basically end it any time, it's not this, like you don't have to invest the whole night in it And then if it goes sideways or somebody gets upset The learning curve is much lower It's simple

You sit down and you get it And then, but we– I was very into, and still am very into something like Catch Phrase And we say this all the time, you don't think you're competitive I think you're just as competitive as me You just show it in a different way

But I think you hate to lose just as much as me, you're just better at keeping it to yourself Now, and you would get super, super into– I don't know about that but we can come back to it So we would start playing this, the six of us and we would get so into it, like loud We were at the, what was it? The El Caribe, was that the hotel that we were in– It was like an apartment building I mean, everyone, do we need to explain what Catch Phrase is? Basically, it's hot potato, but like you, it's like password

There's a word you've gotta get people to guess And you can't say the word And if it stops in your hands you lose So we, there was this other couple that we didn't really know that well, but they were on, they were gonna go on staff with athletes and action, which is the Campus Crusade wing that ministers to athletes Yeah, they were like– They had been college athletes

And so we were like, these people are competitive They surely will be into how wild and crazy and intense our games of Catch Phrase get We invited them over one night And we're playing the game and we're doing our typical like yelling And like when somebody gets it wrong everybody yells, when somebody gets it right everybody yells

And I'm just kinda noticing this couple is– Shrinking They're not really being loud at all They're not, they don't seem like they have the will to win And I think we scarred them forever They did not ask to come back and we didn't talk a whole lot after

I think that the energy we had, it was like, it was just, it was fun to have energy We were playing guys against girls And I think, one of the things that happens with me when I'm playing a game is I get, I'll say things like, is he mad? He seems mad? And if you're the kind of person who that kind of inner– Comedic effect– That kind of energy If he knew you Well, no, I'm just, I'm really getting into it

But the moment that like, we got to order a pizza I'm like, what y'all want on the pizza? You know what I'm saying, it's like, I'm not actually mad I'm just really intensely competing It's like, when you're playing basketball with somebody and you're like talking trash to them, but then you're like, "Hey, let's leave in the same car" It's just part of the competitive spirit for me

But some people don't respond well to that And they think, "Oh, these people must be mad at each other" And I think that, that wasn't how they're, they were also newlyweds I don't think that's how it worked for them Whereas in our marriages, I feel like there was a lot of like, you could be loud with your spouse and it didn't mean you were mad with them

I mean, that's definitely how me and Jessie are, you know I think also when you and I were on a team, we could give clues that seemed impossible 'Cause we knew how we were doing– It's like we would speak in code and then it would be very frustrating– We were tough to beat We we're tough to beat when we're on the same team Yes, that was very, that was hilarious to us and very decimating and frustrating too

But so when you're playing– To competitors– Catan as a family– They ended up just not coming around Right, so when you're playing Catan as a family, are you, it sounds to me, what I was picturing in my mind, as you were talking about it, isn't like, this is, I want to win And that's the main thing I'm thinking about It was more, I'm having a great time with my family That's what I was feeling

Lincoln is pretty competitive and he's a very strategic thinker I don't get that competitive directly with, I mean, I get competitive for the sake of like entertaining myself and my family, but like not in the same way that, on game night, like I want to win And it becomes personal With my family it's like, if Shepherd wins this game, that's awesome for him So I'm not gonna try to like take him out

Well, I actually won But I wasn't like gloating or anything I was actually surprised 'Cause I, Lincoln started, he built all of his cities in this one place where like with, odds are he would end up getting all these bricks He became, he was talking all this smack about, hey, he was a brick factory

"Oh, I got so much brick "If anybody wants any brick, you gotta come to me" That became fun, when it was just like, you start to play a role in the game of like, you're the brick mogul and then people think he's doing so well 'cause he's got so much brick that nobody wants to trade with him And then he gets frustrated and that was fun Fun to watch people get frustrated

Yeah, yeah, yeah We were all doing the same thing and having a good time, so then I'm coming, I'm like, this is a new, this is a new era I think we can do this At the beginning of quarantine, I was thinking, you know what, it's puzzle time, it's game time And on the Mythical Society, we were doing this thing early on where all the Mythical crew members were making videos from home about like what they were doing during quarantine and making suggestions about things that you could also enjoy while being isolated in quarantine and Caleb, our Graphic Designer, who give him credit for most, all of the merch stuff that's designed

He does the vast majority of that I happen to be watching one of his videos on the Society And he started talking about board games and he talked about this one game called PARKS And the way he talked about it was a strategy game where you go through, when you make your way through all the national parks And I'm like, "My dream is to like, "be the dad who goes to all the national parks "with my family

" While never leaving my living room So now we can do that here And it's like, the artwork look really cool And then it was, ended up I couldn't get one I had to, they have a Kickstarter campaign for an expansion

And I ordered that I still haven't gotten it, but I was like, "You know what, we're gonna get this PARKS game "And this is gonna be the new family thing" Hasn't happened, but I do, that's the next thing I'm excited about We come back from the beach and I'm like, "All right, every Sunday that's gonna be our game time

" And so, you know me, I'm like, I'm excited about Catan That's what we're gonna play And I thought everybody else would be excited This is the new Neil thing, tabletop gaming And then Lily is like, "I don't want to play that, "that game stupid

" I was like, it wasn't stupid two days ago She was like "Shape and bricks, it's not for me" You ran into a teenage mentality I'm like, you just made me so mad I was like, well, we're gonna play a game

And we ended up playing the star, we had a Star Wars version of clue, which that, we didn't even finish I was like, look at what happened Fizzle out Fizzle out, and then Lincoln's a few, the next weekend Lincoln's like, "We should play among us" I'm like "Tabletop game

" He was like, "No, we each need to be on our phones "It's a video game on your phone that you play "It's fun with five people, "but you can't talk to each other "And even though we're in the same room, "you gotta act like we're like in different rooms" Wow, okay, yeah

And I'm like, seriously, I was, I told Lily, I was like, if we play Clue, next time we are gonna go back to Catan, and we're gonna like it We are going to like it That's the dad spirit And then we didn't get back, now we're playing among us, which is actually a pretty, it's a very fun game– Is it one of those games where like, you're all looking at the television, like those trivia games that are on your phone? You're all looking at this spaceship schematic And you're running around and you're a crew member, but then one person is an imposter and he's sabotaging everything on the ship and killing people

And then you have to, if you're a crew member and again, every time you play the game, you're randomly assigned You have to perform tasks to like run around the ship and do things But if you're the imposter, you have to act like you're doing things But then when you're along with somebody, you have to kill him And then when you, when a crew member finds someone dead, they have to report dead body

And then everybody comes together and you discuss, like, you actually can talk at that point about who you think the imposter is So it's got like a mafia werewolf kind of vibe, I think But it's mostly in this gaming world Of course I'm so freaking oblivious to how to play a video game That they're just laughing at me the whole time

And then ultimately getting angry at me because I don't know what a dead body looks like I don't know how to move around They're like, he was standing still for a really long time He must have been, he must be the killer No, I don't know how to move

It's like, I don't know how to move Yeah, I got stuck So we quickly moved Somehow my family has taken us away from our new identity as a board gaming family back into like our own phone zone Well, but I think this is still a victory to be celebrated because first of all, the distinction between board games and party games is one that– And video games, blurring, No, I'm just saying that when it comes to what it is that you're trying to accomplish, which is doing something, I'm not gonna say not on screens because that is on screen, but doing something together, that's fun as a family, creating family memories, the distinction between the board games and party games

It doesn't matter I was happy that most everybody was willing to play that game at least three times until it was like, somebody was like, I don't wanna do this anymore I going to my room, you can't go to your room The thing that you're always dealing with when it comes to teenagers is them being on their phones and then being in contact with their friends, girlfriends, whatever, the people that they stay in contact with Their attention spans are really short

And it's very difficult for them to unplug from being in contact And also just their attention spans are short in general I mean, we watch a lot of movies and I try to introduce the kids to movies that I grew up with and, Locke and I watch horror movies together And now we've kinda gotten, you know he's 16 now and now we're watching some of the movies from my list of my favorite movies that I wouldn't let him watch up until now And when you get, when you're looking at a total running time of like two and a half, three hours, for some of these movies, that is a lifetime for a teenager these days- Yeah, I told my kids, I'm like, you don't know how to watch a movie

You can't do it You can watch a show– Well, but what they'll do is they will binge a television show and they'll sit down for five or six hours and watch a whole season of a television show But the feeling of them having some sort of control of them being able to like take a break between episodes, because it's naturally broken up that, I mean, that's why in theory I know Quibi had had a really bad launch, but like something like Quibi made a lot of sense on paper because it was, a it was designed for mobile I watched a couple of shows on there and like the whole like flipping to vertical and the way that that actually changed the interact, it changed it in a way that was cooler than I expected it to be But also the fact that, depending on the show, it's like, this is broken up into byte sized pieces, but it's telling a longer story

I mean, I didn't get into any of the content, but only tried a couple of things But in theory it made sense It's like, let's go mobile Let's have a bias towards vertical Let's make it into byte sized pieces that I don't understand, it just, they got a bunch of great talent to be in the shows and to make the shows, all that to say is what I've observed is that the thing that you're battling is the teenager attention span

And so board games fit right into that I can't even get a kid to watch a movie with me We just what, I was just like, I'll say, "Hey, let's watch a movie" And they're like, eh I'm like, "Okay, well let's watch a show

" They're like, all right Well, and it's like, Locke will– It's like they'll commit to like 40 minutes or 60 minutes with me And I take it personally, it's like, that's all you can take of me And once that's over, it's like "I'm gonna go back in my room" In order to watch something else without me

But the thing that Locke will do is he and his friends will, there'll be, he like, he texted me the other night is with a friend And he was like, "Dad, what was the name of that movie "that we watched where this and that happened?" I was like, send him the text I was like, it was this And then I pick him up and he's like, I'm like, "Hey, did you watch a movie, did you enjoy it?" He says, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah" I mean, I ask him about a part

He's like, "We didn't finish it" Didn't finish "We didn't finish it" I'm like, "What you didn't finish the movie" I don't understand how the teenage brain works

And it wasn't because, it was just like, the night was over or whatever And it's like, "We'll watch the rest of it later" It's like I, again in theory, the Quibi thing makes sense It seems like it was the answer to that, but it just didn't, it hasn't worked yet I feel like it still will at some point, I don't know

Whoa, just, hey I gotta go down We've been rewatching, and this is Lily's idea, rewatching all the Marvel movies She's a huge Marvel fan And I was like, "This is good, I like a game plan" The Niels are watching all the Marvel movies

We went through all the Lord of the Rings and we're watching Survivor and we're watching the Lord of the Rings behind the scenes Like we have different things that are ongoing and I, that is an appeal of series And then she kind of applied that to Marvel movies So then it's like, we're gonna watch all of these She's so into them

But I'm like, girl, you gotta, graduate is not the right word But it is what I kind of feel like I'm a huge fan of all the Marvel movies I love watching them, but there's something, you gotta watch like good movies too It's not what you would call classic cinema

Yeah, cinematically to some more artistic approaches to things Yeah, well, and I feel like I broke that seal I told you that Locke and I watched Pulp Fiction It was like, he kept leaning over, 'cause I remember I watched it when we were in college And we remember, we talked about this on the show when we talked about our favorite movies

And the way it like transformed what we thought was possible with a movie So was he into it? He kept turning to me and he was just like, God, see, like making those faces and saying these things like this is so great Like the very beginning when they're having that conversation about the Royale with cheese, like he just got this smile on his face I was like, yes, he understands why this is good And since then he's, we've been watching a bunch of movies and from that time in my life

But still even when, Friday night, Saturday night rolls around and he's at home He don't want to be with you on a couch for three hours Yeah, even though I've introduced him to these great movies It still is this thing that's like, it's, there's the threshold to overcome to get them to be like, "Yeah, I wanna sit down and devote my evening to this" It's a lot

It's a lot that they would– I was like, let's watch a movie You know what, tonight we're gonna watch a movie We're going to watch a movie Lando is not here Lando was at your house for Shepherd's birthday

Just the two of them And they watched a movie And I was like, we can watch a movie that Lando can't watch We're gonna watch The Reverent Leonardo DiCaprio is– That's one on the list for me– Is amazing, this one, and they were a little reticent, but I'm like, this is happening

It's a good movie, you're gonna like it It's not too long into it that there's the bear attack And Lily like stands up And I honestly, I had forgotten how traumatic, I mean, how real this and relentless I mean, I wouldn't call it a bear attack

I would call it three bear attacks I don't know if you remember, we saw it in the theater And that was the only time I'd seen it The bear attacks at the dude three different times And after the first time you're like, "Oh my gosh, "I just don't feel like I can keep watching this

"I don't know if I can take this "This is so intense" And so Lily is like, "I can't watch this" And you know what? She was like– Like sit down and watch this guy get maimed Yeah, I was like, well, listen, but I was like, you loved Us, like you watch all these, you watch stuff that's just as intense

Like there was, I mean, that was real and scary, but yeah, it was– And gory And gory, but so was Us, Us was in very scary and very gory Us is gory She's like, turns out it was the intensity of it, but it was also, I didn't, and she's inching our way to the door now And she's like, I just don't wanna watch two guys chase themselves around, chase around each other on the wilderness

Chase themselves around the wilderness I can't even put the sentence together, but you know what I'm saying? Chase went on wilderness I'm like, well, I'm losing this battle But then Christy and Lincoln watched it with me And I think Lincoln was like "That was a good movie

" He watched the whole thing We watched the whole thing It's a long movie It's a good movie cinematically, I mean– We wanna watch that one together Pretty mind blowing, but it's very intense

To get to get back to games for a second We're gonna play Catan again this weekend I'm getting back on that horse Now you talked about how you didn't think you would be into strategy games Now for the longest time, I've always just thought, man, it makes sense that you would be into strategy games and board games because there's rules and there's a system

And like, once you learn it and execute it, there are specific results It seems to tie into your oneness on the inner gram I've not had a lot of experience And I think I was thrown in the deep end I have never played monopoly

I've never played it We have that as a– I told Lily that, and Lily was like, dad, who are you? I mean, how does this happen? I'm like, I was an only child Like I didn't play, I didn't a family I had a mom, like me and mom aren't gonna sit down and play monopoly You can't play with just two people

This is what is always perplexing to me in, is that– And I didn't watch movies with my mom Most of the time– I was just– No, but I didn't Here's the thing, played monopoly as a kid But my family did not play board games Who did you play monopoly with? It would just be like, in the time between I was zero and 18

And somewhere in childhood, it'd be like, you're at someone's home or you're at like your cousin's house or somebody has monopoly and you play it My kids have played it I didn't seek these things out They sought me out I feel like you were purposely avoiding them

It has to be– There was an opportunity and you were like, "Ah, that's not for me" Has to be I think I was in, anything strategy, you're taking a long time I think it was how my kids feel about movies I felt about these games

It's like, you gotta learn a lot You gotta like think hard and you can't let up Like, it just seems exhausting I'll played Connect Four And listen, the McLaughlin's, the issue with the McLaughlin's is attention span and also adhering to a system or rules

It's very difficult because I am by far the most system oriented person in my family And on the spectrum of people, I'm somewhere in the middle probably in terms of like how much system there is in my life But in my family I'm on the extreme And so like rules and systems and having to do things in a certain way, mixed with really competitive people who don't like to lose all of us, all four of us is a, it can make for an incredible time or it can make for like an, somebody is gonna cry, there's gonna be some explosiveness that happens I've seen it on Shepherd's face a number of times, when you're the youngest one and you're the youngest one by five years, up until pretty recently, it was like, he just doesn't have the faculties to be super competitive in some of these games

Whatever we might be playing And so you could see that, like when he makes a mistake that, "Oh, there it is "He just lost the game" He just made a critical mistake, he'd get this look on his face like I've blown it You know what I'm saying

He's like, he wants to win so bad And it's just like, it's only, and this is a flaw This is something that I've had to, I continue to work on is like, are you having fun if you don't win Super competitive people have trouble having fun if they don't, if they're not winning If they're doing something and they're like, I'm not good at this

And I don't think I'm gonna be able to be good enough at this to be competitive in it So I'm gonna lose interest And so those are the kind of factors, but I think the fact that everybody wants to win ultimately is how you get people roped into games in my family But we started quarantine with games and they've completely fallen off Like we were playing Scrabble

I mean, we were scrabbling it up I've never played Scrabble Again, that's odd to me, that you haven't run across a Scrabble There's a Scrabble board somewhere on the street that you just found yourself playing on I got it, I mean like grandparents, wouldn't never played games

Like I don't recall, I mean, as you and I, we would never play games Well, like I said, we didn't have games in my house growing up We didn't have Scrabble I played Scrabble probably the first time as an adult because Jessie's parents had it And they let us sit down and play Scrabble and I'm like, all right, I know words

Apparently not nearly as many as Jessie's mom I don't think that I am, it's not really about, am I competitive or not? There's also a second factor along with that That's like the group dynamic Yeah, trying to set the scene for a family Well, what I'm saying? Yes, I think I'm most interested in that with family, my family and none of us are that competitive

Like nobody gets that upset about winning or losing or anything and at least at this point, maybe we'll get more competitive, but we'll be on that journey together I think that I was turned off by being in environments where people were a lot more competitive and then you just start to feel stupid It's kind of embarrassing Like it's a bad feeling when people know how to play something, like Shepherd's experience I think that was part of my experience

I'm like, ah, I don't want to have that I don't wanna look like a dummy in front of everybody who's played monopoly their whole life So it's like, I'm not, so, and then that might come out as I'm not competitive So again, I can't even tell, like I actually don't Well, there is a difference because with Shepherd, what he'll want to do is he'll wanna play, let's start over or let's play tomorrow night

So he doesn't be like, "Okay, I don't want to play this game again 'cause I lost" He's like, "I wanna play this game again because I lost" But I don't think, I'm trying to set the stage for, I actually don't think I'm competitive You think I'm competitive, I think I don't I think there's something that you're interpreting as I'm deep down competitive, but I think I'm interested in something different

Like not looking stupid I think when the stage is set, and we're doing something that you feel confident in, like, you're like, I understand this game and I have reason to believe that I am just as good or better at the people that I'm playing against I think when the setting is right, when the circumstances are right, you want to win as much as I want to win I think the difference is that if I enter a situation and I'm not good at something, I have to really resist the urge to like, okay, with poker, for instance, like, I started playing poker with my wife's family long time ago, like early in our marriage And like, it got competitive really quickly

And I'm like, if I'm going to have a chance of winning at this I gotta understand it So I went and got all these books about poker and like read all these strategy about poker, because it was, instead of like, you know what, when you guys play poker, I'm not gonna be a part of it, which is what you might do I'm just like, which was probably ultimately more healthy 'Cause I'm just wasting time learning how to play poker In one sentence I'm not gonna be like a professional poker player, but then I'm like, even like within the past couple of years, I'll find myself thinking like I need to get a book on chess 'cause I've never really gotten good at chess

No, I don't actually, I mean maybe if I want to, and I think it would be fun to learn, but not just so I could have like beat somebody at chess, but I don't, I've just observed like even the games we play on GMM, like the guessing, the countdown game gets super competitive in that game, because– I believe I have a chance Yeah, because you're really good at that game Or like the Pup Puck game I'm like, "Hey, this is a new one" I don't have to lose every time

But then at a certain point with like, I lose this dart game every time, it's like, well, that's kinda frustrating 'Cause I feel like I do try on that one I'm not great at aim, but yeah It's like, I think there's– And there's nothing wrong with that There's nothing

No, I think we're at extremes because I think that the thing that could be wrong with it is not willing to try something and get better at something in order to enjoy, like the competition part of it is, I mean, if you can only point to one example or two examples on the show, given all the things we compete against, it's just not the thing I'm most interested in So I don't think, I'm certainly not competitive to the same level that you are because I'm not interested in winning I think what I'm getting at is once the circumstances are set and you're committed to the game, I can see in your eyes that you want to win That is very rare I think it takes a lot for the circumstances to be right

I'm just saying in those moments And so– But I am generally not competitive, like sports But there are people– Like games But there are people who, okay, Catch Phrase, you're super competitive in Catch Phrase I think it's– And there are people who aren't

I think you're misinterpreting that I think it's fun to be really into it, like the theatricality of it But I don't really care if I win or lose Like a lot of times when I play Catch Phrase, I'll like, I'll give clues in a very weird way because I just think it's fun and because if there's a timer I'm like, and it's gonna go, I don't believe

But there's also strategy in that Beat it, take it, doing weird clues early on in the clock is that there's a strategy 'Cause then you give it to the next person There's less time And then they get frustrated

And this funny to watch them get upset, but it's not about winning or losing It's just about the social dynamics are a music thing– I guess what I'm saying is I have known people who I would say are truly not competitive Like you can tell that they really, at no point do they get engaged to the point where they would actually really wanna win It's like who, I don't, and I just I'm saying that, okay I will definitely can see that you're not as competitive as me, but you're more competitive than you give yourself credit

I think I'm adaptable to, sometimes when people are competitive and that's how they're having a good time Like it's not fun to be, it's a killjoy to not participate And the way you participate because you're competitive I think you're misinterpreting me as being competitive when I'm just being playful Like I'm actually like, I'm here to play

I'm here, I don't, I want to contribute to the fun that's being had and the climate is competition, but I personally am not driven, I'm driven by having a good time And I don't, and I know, I have one, I can either be competitive and that will be fun for everybody Or I'll the person who's not And then it's a Debbie Downer, it destroys it So when you do something well and don't think about it, I think you're also isolating it to games, but like anything, well, anything that you do in your career, like I'm trying to do this well, I'm trying to be a certain way about this

I'm trying to create this piece of, I guess my definition of competition is just much wider as well, because what I'm saying is I feel like competitiveness is one of the elements that has gotten us to where we're at in our career Like, and it is, I don't mean like, Ooh, I want to get more views than this other channel I mean, sometimes it might come down to that, but it's not really that It's more like I'm competing against myself Like ultimately everybody wants to be important in some way

And people who are in their entertainment kind of achieve that and find their purpose a lot of times in, eliciting a reaction from people And I would say that you are actually even more focused and committed to getting a reaction from a crowd or from an individual than I am You think about, like the way that you're super, I'm much less concerned about things like, where is this thing and where is the camera? And am I showing, am I opening this box in the right way? In my mind, that's all competitive nature It's like, you have a commitment to excellence and you may, you're thinking about competitiveness in like I'm throwing a ball faster than a person or not, but like, you actually care about that stuff more than I do And I would call that sort of purse

I would almost say it's a relentless pursuit of doing things in a certain way Perfection is not, I mean, is attained by comparison to like a standard But I think it's a stretch to say that that's competition, like I'm competing against the standard I also think it is, I think it's a little muddied by, I don't know Do you do you get from me in this conversation that like I judge you for being competitive? Yes

Okay, so we're breaking in Kiko, I don't envy what the decisions you've had to make in editing this, but apparently Kiko has decided that what you just heard was like the truncated point and the end of this episode– And the reason being– And then next week, you'll get the continuation for over an hour of the rest of our conversation, which like veered deep into introspection and arguments and an apology I'm sensationalizing, 'cause I really do want– It got very deep I want him to listen to part two, 'cause I think it's, I'm gonna be thinking a lot about it Just to set the stage, 'cause you're gonna have to wait a week to listen to it So as you know, we were talking about board games and I've talked about this many times, I've talked about my theory that Link is just as competitive as me in quotes

And that led to a conversation– And I've never liked it when you said that And I don't know exactly why About a, boy it got very, it just got very deep It got very personal, very vulnerable from both sides And we ended up talking about the dynamics of our friendship and our creative partnership and how we think differently about it and what we, how we think the same about it

And I just didn't want that conversation to get buried at the end of an entire episode, about something else, about board games and movies and our kids And so you may be frustrated with us that we're making you wait another week for it, but we poured a lot of ourselves into it and I don't want it to get buried and– And not to be competitive, but if you're frustrated, you can drag your frustration at Link 'Cause this was his idea I don't like having a two and a half hour podcast when it's like– I believe this is the right choice actually And it puts something front and center that we want the most people to listen to and not lose heart before they get to it

And it allows us to not have to sit down and record another episode Which is always good So it's a win win

So stay tuned to next week for that But for now use hashtag EarBiscuits, let us know about board games I mean, we've just finished having the part of the conversation you're going to next week So it's like, this is so– I think we said some good things about board games Is it Ketan or Catan? You could tell us about that

I'm sure you would like to recommend board games to us or any type of family oriented games that we can continue to borrow– We're not a family, just ones where you put the kids to bed and things get dirty Those are good games too Hashtag EarBiscuits and we will speak at you next week, which will be the continuation– But we're about to record an intro for that That makes sense of it So there's lots of different pieces

Let's do that now To watch more Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist on the right To watch the previous episode of Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist to the left And don't forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it's available on all your favorite podcast platforms

Thanks for being your Mythical best

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