Are We Having A Mid-Life Crisis?

Welcome to "Ear Biscuits", I'm Link And I'm Rhett

This week, we're still at our individual tables of adequate I don't know if I've got adequate lighting this week We didn't think they were gonna be here Hey, we're both wearing gray t-shirts Is that better Yeah, that's great than being the same dimly lit round table? That's our

Funny thing is is we're actually now in contact with one another, we shot GMM together So we're no longer social distancing from each other because we basically have formed a pod between our families and now with Stevie But, here's the thing

We thought that we were gonna be recording this in the studio this week and we are gonna be shooting some GMM in the studio this week, but there's a bunch of construction going on and people in and out of the studio So in order to minimize risk, we're in here again So we lied, we're sorry Oh no, we were mistaken We were just wrong

We were mistaken, we were wrong, But you know what? We're more based up like this Hopefully just this one It is my birthday as we're recording this as with everything else, nothing counts I mean, you tweeted, I appreciate you acknowledging my birthday on Twitter I will acknowledge that you acknowledged my birthday right now

There was a mild acknowledgement given the state of the world I know, it's like, we've been through so many milestones here at my home like multiple birthdays, multiple mother's day, anniversaries, all types of stuff And it's just so, it's so hard, to work up the gumption to, try to make it special because it's like, you just feel like I'm just gonna wait It'll be special again later And so, I don't know, man

It's, and then you compound, we're not just, we're not just living in a world that's a pandemic We're in crisis, here in America Yeah, well, so we'll talk about that a little bit because what we're gonna talk about when we get into the main part of the episode is, we're gonna be talking about getting older and not just as two middle aged men who are literally older now, but just the process of growing up and we're gonna touch on some different stages in life And we're using your questions to explore that Looking forward to that

Yeah, so whether you're in your teens, your 20s, 30s, 40s, wherever you are, we've, been through a lot of it and we anticipate even more So we'll be touching on all that stuff hopefully But before we get into that, yes, we do want to acknowledge what's going on in the world I mean, last week, on "Ear Biscuits", we were talking about that I wanted to, because of just for my own personal health to take a news break Now wisely, you pointed out at the time that was really a decision that was rooted in my own privilege of being able to just check out

And since then, and we also, we talked about the, the murder of George Floyd briefly and how that we had just learned about that, when we recorded the night before, and I had a lot of anger about that And just over the course of the few days after that, of course, protests broke out throughout the nation They're continuing to go on right now We've got curfews in place in Los Angeles and things have really gotten volatile out there So we're not gonna do, I think the thing that a lot of times white folks like to do, which is to be like, "Hey, let's get together with other white folks "and talk about race

" I think that would be in one sentence, that could be a little tone death And I think that we have made an effort to, as a company, but also as individuals to, say some things during this time, but it's difficult One of the things that I've learned just pretty recently to be conscious about is just the idea of not just doing the typical thing where you kinda come in and say your piece as if what you have to say is super important

I had a lot of things on my mind and on my heart about what was happening and it hit me that the most strategic thing that I could do is just talk about a little bit about what I've been learning, especially from black voices who actually, understand the history of what's going on in our country and understand why what's happening right now is happening And so instead of trying to speak my mind necessarily, what I did is I wrote a letter to my former self and tried to embody the way that I used to think about these issues which I was very sure was a just and right and logical way of thinking about them, and I've since come to the realization that a lot of those thoughts were based in my privilege, in my whiteness, which is contrary to what a lot of people on the internet will say, is not a myth And I'll just jump in and say, if you haven't read the Medium article that Rhett wrote, I'm super proud of the fact that he put that down on paper or you can watch him read it, or listen to him read it on his Instagram page So here I am finally promoting your Instagram Well and also my Twitter, so you can shout me out on Twitter and Instagram Or Twitter

I decided to read it because, we talked about this last week as well I mean, every once in a while something gets me and I'm like, I have to say something and I'll write a Medium piece, but it kinda just hit me, a lot of people don't read, period And a lot of people don't read, Medium articles Take the time to just read an article And a lot of people don't wanna read something from a guy who's famous on YouTube, which I get that, neither do I But I thought that by taking the time to read it, I could maybe communicate how personal it was and also get it out there

Because again, it's like, I'm not trying to speak into the culture at large, and I'm not trying to be a voice that is telling black people how they should be acting and reacting to what's going on That's what a lot of white people that I know like to do But what I wanted to do, as I said, the only thing that I'm an authority on in this situation is the way that I used to think about this, because I was there, it was me And so, I just wanna talk about that And so I'm not gonna rehash it here, but like Links said, that's what I have to say about the situation

Of course, as a company, we're doing what we can to support the movement to fight racial inequality and injustice, both by speaking into it, but also in giving But I think, and instead of waiting until the end of the episode to give a rec, I wanna get my rec up front because I think that, rather than listen to us talk about it, I'd like you to listen to a very, very compelling black voice on these issues And one of the books that was the most eyeopening for me, was "Stamped From the Beginning" by Ibram X Kendi So this is a, first of all, thankfully he has two versions of this book because if you just read, "Stamped From the Beginning", it's a long comprehensive book

It's a history book that covers the history of racism against black people, starting even before America But then the majority of the book talks about just the history of racism in America Now if you're like us, if you're our age, if you're from where we're from I think we grew up kinda just thinking that, Yeah, of course there was racism against black people Back in the day, I mean, of course there was slavery, and then there was stuff before the civil rights movement

But now, it's kinda like, I mean, Hey, we had a black president Everything's cool now, right? And I think that's not really understanding the depth of racism in America and what that means, and what that has meant for black people historically and what that means for black people now So I heavily, highly as enthusiastically as possible recommend reading or listening to "Stamped From The Beginning" And if that 19 and a half hour audible book, is a little bit too much for you to bite off, he actually collaborated with, I think Jason Reynolds is his name And did, I think it's just called "Stamped"

And it's basically the teenage version of, the content that's in "Stamped From the Beginning" It kinda changes the voice and speaks a little bit in a less academic and more like to speaking to this generation And it's a shorter read, but it's essentially the same content So, "Stamped" by Ibram X Kendi

Okay, I can get into that Yeah, and I would just say again the tendency, and this has been my tendency for my whole life My tendency is just as events unfold in the world is to begin forming opinions about those events, and then beginning to spout those opinions off and talk to other people about those opinions, before listening and before understanding the context And if you say things like white privilege is a myth If you say that there is no racist oppression in America today, A, you're flat wrong, and the only way to learn that you're wrong, is to actually learn about the history of racism and America

And you've gotta educate yourself, and that doesn't mean the US history class that you took in high school did it, because I took that same US history class, and they didn't talk about this stuff They didn't talk about this stuff to the degree, and with the accuracy and the stepping out of the traditional colonialist white perspective in the way that Ibram is able to do, in "Stamped From the Beginning" and also I recommend it for other books that are kinda come at things from a different angle but are all great in the Medium article that you can I recommend all those and the rest of them are shorter, if you wanna try one of those, I've really had to come to grips with, the fact that being on the sidelines of this issue is perpetuating the problem

There are a lot of quotes floating around that are, say, much more eloquently than that but for me, I haven't denied these problems and I haven't sought to actively undermine by any means But I feel like I've been paralyzed, because with a combination of just not being educated enough and having fear about deciding to say or do things because we're in this environment where, if you decide to say something, my instinct is not to, take as little amount of time as possible to understand something just so I can then turn around and say where I stand on it I'm very hesitant to take stands on things because I just don't have a lot of confidence when it comes to that type of thing So instead, I just get intimidated, and just kinda move on to the next thing I'm troubled by it, but I'm kind of frozen on the sidelines and I've really come to grips with like, I don't wanna stay there

It's just acknowledging the excuses in order to work through them to say, hey, sometimes if you say something and you say the wrong thing, even if you're trying to help, then you make people upset that you're trying to help or if you put anything on the internet that shares something and that implies that you're taking action or that you believe other people should also take action, it just puts a target No matter what is being said on the internet, if you look underneath it, most likely there someone is very much opposed to it And so I wig out trying to anticipate what that is It's paralyzing I find it really interesting that one of the accusations, one of the accusations that we've received

This year we become more vocal Obviously we've become more vocal for a number of reasons We became more vocal once we kind of broke the story of our de-conversion, deconstruction and people have perceived that we're being more political or talking about issues

I think that those things just happen to coincide in one sense, but it also coincided with 2020, which is a year in which you're not getting political You're kind of missing the point You're not participating if you're not getting political But I'll say that one of the accusations that we received sorta multiple times is "You guys are doing this "to please your audience" Let me tell you everybody, we've done nothing but lose audience

We've done nothing but lose audience Every time I tweet something that is a little bit controversial, I lose followers So, we're not doing this to gain audience I want as many people to stick around as possible, but that's not why we're doing it, but to speak to what you're talking about with this hesitation to say something because you feel like you're gonna say something wrong First of all, you are going to say something wrong

When you speak into these things, you are going to get it wrong And you don't mean that, you're not singling me out I don't know, at this point Anyone who makes a decision to try to be a part of it is gonna get it wrong and it's just part of the process But it's also the way that we learn how to do it

And I think you'll be surprised that if you just take a humble posture and you take a posture that is like, I'm here to learn, I'm here to listen If I said that in the wrong way or if I had an idea that was actually based in some cloak racism that I didn't even know if I had, point that out to me, 'cause I want to grow And I think another aspect of that is the more that I listen, the more that I learn the better way to engage And this is a really recent thing for us I think, the way that I have thought and felt about these issues of racial injustice in America has been around for quite some time, but the way that I'm actually interacting and engaging and sort of understanding the depth of the problem, the persistence of the problem

That's something that's only come, that's not gonna come by just having a conversation with you you know what I'm saying? Me and you can get together and talk and pontificate and philosophize about everything until the cows come home and we're never gonna understand the situation that's happening in black America The only way you're gonna understand that, is you have to read, listen to black voices And so if you're speaking into this, but you haven't read a book like "Stamped From the Beginning", you haven't listened to a talk or a video, you're not following anybody on Twitter, who's speaking from that perspective You don't have the facts You're coming into this with blinders on

And it took me a long time to And that's not just the case with this issue That's the case with every issue

It drives me crazy The thing that drives me crazy is when, if you find yourself in the wrong place, on Twitter or scrolling through the comments, you get barraged, you get pummeled by people who, there is, I can discern no love or empathy in their point of view It's one thing to disagree or to make a counterpoint or to come from a different place But that's the one thing I do feel like I can discern, it's kind of sniff out, like, is there any love, any component of love in what you're saying? And, that's why it's deeply disturbing to me If I go to the president's Twitter timeline, it deeply disturbs me that I cannot dis

I cannot pick up just a grain of empathy in what he says I know we don't wanna It's like, well, here I am getting into Best, but hold on, but here's the thing

That's not political, that's just human intuition I'm being honest with you Like seeing the fact that our country is going through what it's going through right now and we have a president who we don't even want him to speak about it because him speaking about it makes it worse Like that's unprecedented that we have a president who we do not actually want to say anything because he will only inflame, he will only divide That's not a political observation

That's just a logical observation about human behavior I don't care what side of the spectrum you're on You cannot deny that fact He is not a leader, he is a divider He's making it worse

It's the absolute last thing that we need right now Hopefully it won't last much longer So, let's shift to a broader topic of getting older But first, let's direct you to the mythical store mythical

com has all types of stuff Don't we just sell great t-shirts? 'Cause that seems to be what we're in the mood for today Well, great t-shirts in all shapes and sizes You got a V neck, it's kind of a baby V This was your shirt

And somehow I got it and now it's my favorite shirt It got too small for me This is my life Slowly, and I wash it too many times, it was very clean The baby V I was looking in the mirror and I was like, Christie, do I look

It makes my neck look so tall and my hair is getting bigger so now just look skinny I don't know, go to mythicalcom to wear stuff that makes you just right

I saw a side-by-side or an over-under of pre quarantine written link on GMM in today's So that went up Yeah, I saw that Recording this on next birthday And somebody was like, "Rhett looks a little more homeless," or whatever the word they use was, and Link looks smaller and skinnier But I looked at it and I think it's just your hair's bigger

And you're also kind of like turned to the side I don't think you've lost that much weight in just a couple of months, have you? No, I lost some weight and then I gained it back, but I might've gained it in a different place than my neck, As long as you keep it moving, keep it shifting mythicalcom That was an ad

That was an ad Okay, let's get into these questions We'll start with Meredith Gordon, isabeanfuzz on Twitter "Do you believe in the existence of a quarter life crisis? "I'm 37, so obviously closer to having a midlife crisis, "but since in quarantine, ""I've been thinking it might be possible "to take the quarantine quarter life crisis intensive "and get it done before 40" Yeah, if you're 37 and you're having a quarter life crisis that means that you expect to be 148 years old if I'm doing the math right

But she's saying, "I'm closer to having a midlife crisis" I don't quarter-life crisis, I guess would be like in your mid 20s But I do know, I don't know about that I can relate to the fact that, like, I mean, being in quarantine, it's time for a lot of reflection And so I've definitely found myself asking, what is my life? What am I doing? I wouldn't call it a crisis

So, de-emphasizing the word crisis, I do think I've had like a midlife assessment period There's a lot of question marks associated with that, but it's, turning 42 and having time to think about it more, I just feel like, okay, what's the rest of my life gonna look like? I'm looking back at everything we've done And by the way, we've And if you listen through a bunch of these episodes, we've lived a bunch of life, man I'm super grateful Like, we've had great lives, multiple We've had multiple careers You've got multiple? I feel like we've lived multiple lives

We've had different careers And even in this current career, there's been like multiple iterations to it And this year, even before the pandemic, it was kind of a transition year for us professionally because we had come off a touring We'd been ambitious about a number of things And it was kind of like a regrouping phase in order to then figure out where we were going next and the things we were gonna create next, in addition to this show and "Good Mythical Morning"

In terms of building the company, on a lot of fronts I felt like I'm in this midlife mindset even before the quarantine I don't know, can you relate to that? Do you feel like you're having a midlife crisis? I think that the components of a midlife crisis and that's why you're probably feeling it and I'm feeling it too, you've been working towards something and it doesn't have to necessarily be your career could just be like you just trying to get, you're trying to do life And there's a certain part of your life when you're really trying hard to do life and to focus and to move things to the next level And then you start crossing over into this place where you sorta realize that, oh, what I was trying to accomplish and kinda set up in my life, it's kind of happened

I have a house, I have a car, I have kids, I have a relatively stable job And then you start looking over the horizon and you're like, "Oh, so it's just this "It's just this and it's just more of this "and then one day I die" And I think that, that transitional period, like there's a point in your life where, when you're in college or whatever, all you're thinking about is what's ahead of you I gotta figure this out, I gotta make the right decision about what I'm gonna do

And then you make Like for us, we went through the different transitions to get to the point where we're working together doing this stuff, and then constantly trying to just grind and figure it out and build this business Yeah, there was so much scrambling and yeah, for us, I'm so grateful that we're at a place where, we're enjoying stability, even in the face of what's going on economically, relative stability for us, not total civility, I'm still wigging out a lot

But the ability to have a midlife crisis is a privilege It means that you've gotten to a point where you're actually able to stop, step outside of your circumstances and be like, Is this all there is? Is this it? Yeah I talked about this book a long time ago You forced the recommendation out of me, "The Second Mountain", where it talks about, you work really hard to get to the first mountain And, you either fall off the first mountain or you get to the top of it and at that point, you realize, this can't be my mountain

And I think that one of the things that's coinciding with our midlife crisis, if that's, I will use that word You can use assessment, I'll say crisis is, I think there's no mystery in why this is the year that we decided to tell our full story about the last years There's no mystery why I'm willing to say the things that I say on Twitter And it's because I think that this life has got to be bigger than me just trying to be a successful person and make it on YouTube or whatever it is that we, what we call what we're trying to do So I was like, "Oh, no, "actually, I kinda need to think about "the mark that I'm leaving

" Legacy Yeah and it's, I think that you just naturally become So it's all about , everyone is gonna have a crisis

The question is, what is your response to it? Are you gonna buy a Ferrari? Well, I'm not– Are you just gonna become- You know what my Ferrari is gonna be, because I've been thinking, I've been talking to you about this I've started looking at #vanlife I don't know what planted this seed in my mind, but I'm like, people are modifying these vans, like the sprinter vans And, once you click on one of those on Instagram, Instagram knows you wanna look at the inside of people's vans So I'm like, man, these people are like traveling around from state to state, sleeping and living in a van

They're parking their van next to a mountain lake, opening the back doors of the van and taking a picture from their bed to a lake I saw this one clip I appreciate this Somebody had a, they had like a GoPro stuck to their forehead and they got out of their bed in their van, they scooped up a coffee mug, poured coffee into it, opened the door to the van and it was a beautiful mountain lake And then they walk out onto this little stone pathway

And then they just, with their coffee, walk on the pathway and just jump into the lake And I was like, that's gonna be the rest of my life I'mma get one of these vans And I'm talking to you about it I'm talking to my kids about it

Lando is into it, Christie's like, "Where's the shower in this thing?" I'm like, "I think you have to shower outside unless you think" I don't wanna be, well, first of all, I was talking to, I told you about this I was talking to my friend's brother who had a van that they were redoing and he was creating a system that recycled three gallons of water so you could take a shower inside the van

He was like trying to Yeah, that's right But he's just a dude

And it's him and his wife I think you planted the seed when you told me that Well, but I really, I believe in this, but I have one hangup for me personally and one hangup for you personally, that I don't think no as a showstopper necessarily You know me, I'm just a big man and #vanlife probably doesn't have a lot of six foot, seven aficionados As long as your knees bend, you'll be all right

But the second thing is, is that you have It's a family of five So, is this when the kids are gone? I'm thinking about like making a cut to the team, to make this van life thing happen

It's like, well, "are you in or not? "'Cause everyone's not gonna make it" The idea of doing van life with my family is not something that I'm into I'll do a vacation with them, I'll stay in a hotel I'm talking about an RV I'm not talking about living in a van

I'm talking about having the ultra luxury of just being able to get into the van every other month and go on like a, and it's like– You want me to go with you? Sometimes Yeah, but isn't it just one bed I'm not sharing a bed with you You are the worst person in the world to share a bed with and I haven't shared a bed with you I don't know, I'm putting another bed on top

You can sleep up there in a popup tent I need it just for the sake of the fan fiction people, I do need to finish that sentence though We used to go to conferences when we were in college and after college where forced college students would stay in one hotel room and me and you would share like a queen sized bed in a hotel and you are not a good bed partner because you move a whole lot I said it before, I'll say it again I sleep with reckless abandoned

You wake up and your face is right next to my face So I definitely do not wanna be a part of that if that's part of #vanlife You wait until you see this van Next question, Ruth asks, no, that's RuthDahl 11 "Why does time seem to move exponentially faster each year?" So, like when you're a kid, everything goes so slowly

When you're a teenager, when you're like the more you want time to progress, the less it does And then the more you want it to slow down, the more it speeds up I guess that rings true for me It definitely rings true for me I think it rings true for a lot of people

And so I looked up, "is there any science behind this?" This is what an article in scientific American said "Our brain encodes new experiences, "but not familiar ones into memory "And our retrospective judgment of time "is based on how many new memories we create "over a certain period" "In other words, "the more new memories we build on a weekend getaway, "the longer that trip will seem in hindsight "This phenomenon, which Hammond," Hammond is, I guess the doctor that they're quoting

"has dubbed "the holiday paradox" seems to present "one of the best clues as to why in retrospect, "time seems to pass more quickly older we get" "From childhood to early adulthood, "we have many fresh experiences "and learn countless new skills "As adults though, our lives become more routine "and we experience fewer unfamiliar events" Just like I said, is this all there is? "As a result, our early years "tend to be relatively overrepresented "in our autobiographical memory and on reflection "seem to have lasted longer" So it's not that in the moment

If you sit an old person down and a young person down for an hour, it's actually the probably the younger person who's gonna feel like that hour is taking longer Oh, I'd actually, that's consistent with it, but it's not about that It's really just the fact that you don't have any points of reference

You gotta have points of reference to create memories New experiences To me, that's the thing, and I think I'm only this van life thing because I'm so cooped up and I wanna go to parks now I wanna get out of the house again and I want to experience adventure and maybe it's overblown because I'm so cooped up and it'll dissipate over the rest of the year as things continue to loosen up but fingers crossed, I don't know, I'm not really making predictions here, but I do like the idea of, and we've talked about this in the past, like creating experiences, new experiences that enrich your life and say, you know, I'm a creature of habit, I like to do, I like getting things honed and perfected and then replicated But it's not the, that doesn't make for a, for the best life necessarily

It actually, I mean, and according to this, the more routine, the faster your life is gonna go The faster you're gonna piss it away if you don't break out the routine Not even remember any of it Well, it's funny because I'm not a routine guy and I'm actually noticing one of the things I've done consistently, because we haven't had to go into the office every day and so we're not getting, I'm getting up early, but I'm not having to get on the road at the same time every day Is that, I'm meditating and I'm working out

And then I'm actually able to walk probably with Jesse at the end of the day, but it's getting tougher for me because it feels like I go and I like get up stretch, meditate, workout Yeah, it's the same old thing Do my smoothie And then I'm just like, "I gotta eat something different" It takes me about three weeks and I'm like, "I've had this smoothie for three weeks

" and it's like, I start getting stir crazy I'm like, "I gotta have oatmeal "I gotta do something else to mix it up" But the thing you're talking about, this cooped up thing So I think, I don't know if I made this a wreck

I should've made it a wreck, but, did I talk about the book "Underland"? Did I talk? Yeah, yeah So when I, at the beginning of quarantine, I was doing this exercise where I was sort of figuring out what my values are And I don't mean that in like a family values kind of way I was just like, what do I want my life to be kinda represented by? What I want to be present in my life An adventure was one of the things that I wanted to be present in my life

I have a sense of adventure, you do too But when you get super busy, the opportunity or the sort of scheduling adventures can sometimes go by the wayside And what I found is that I'm just waiting for an opportunity for a vacation Not anymore, but before quarantine, it was like, "Jesse, let's go spend a weekend in a hotel "and what we'll do is on Saturday, "we'll just lay by the pool" And I kinda discovered this like five or six years ago

And I was like this laying next to a pool and reading on vacation, that's where it's at But I started realizing that we were doing things like going to Cabo for a weekend and laying next to the pool And of course, it's beautiful and I love the company and great food, great drink, whatever Starts to blur together You're also like, "Hold on

"But right outside the grounds of this hotel, "there's probably like a cave that I could go into" You know what I'm saying? The thing I told Jesse, I was like, "When we travel from now on, "I really wanna make sure that we've got "a balance of adventure and relaxation," because you don't wanna just go and just run yourself ragged on a vacation, but to really think about the opportunities for adventure that present themselves in any given location Or adventure in your own backyard You don't have to travel to do it, not yet But I'm just saying, that I haven't even seen travel as primarily about adventure

We went to France a few years ago for that film festival and had it We actually did, what's the one thing you remember about that trip? What's the one thing you tell people about this trip? The scooter Almost dying on a scooter

Yeah And it's like, 'cause we made a choice for adventure That was the right choice, man That'll make your life short or long I didn't understand your science

You might die, but it'll make it make your life longer Grace-Anna tweeted, "I turned 17 in just a few weeks "and I couldn't be more ready for my birthday "and being one year closer to adulthood, "but I feel like being so eager for adulthood "is almost wrong "Everyone I talk to about this says adulthood is awful "How should I feel about my impending adulthood?" Adulthood is awful At 17? Lily's 17

It's like, I understand you talk about being cooped up There's like a certain freedom, like wanting to get on with your own life As a parent, her question makes me just think about how I look at my family and starting to think as Lily's 17, Lincoln's 15, Lock is 16 You starting to think about them just months down the road of like leaving the house They're gonna be on their own

It's definitely another part of aging for me I'm kinda co-oping her question for me as a parent but I start to think about things like, when my kids get out of the house, what are they gonna come back to? A van, apparently They're gonna come back and there's gonna be a foundation and a van on it Am I building a lifestyle for me and Christie that is not dependent on kids and it doesn't revolve around our kids, but also build a future and start to have dreams that my kids can enter back into but it's not all about them? That's the next phase for us Lando's only 10 so

The best way to keep it about not about them is as soon as they leave to go to college, you turn their room into something else It doesn't even matter what it is It could be a gym, it could just be, just where all the socks that you can't match are, you know what I'm saying? Just take their bed, their desk, their posters, get rid of it all because you want to be very clear about, "You will not live here after you graduate college "So don't get any ideas "unless you wanna sleep on a bunch of mismatched socks" That's my plan

But I started to think about like, am I gonna live in this house? Is this the house that Lincoln is gonna come back to with his Is this the house that they bring their partners back to? Their significant others, "Hey mom and dad, "you gotta meet Derek" I don't know I'm predicting there's gonna be a Derek involved

Jesse and I have, we've kind of made this decision that no, that our current house will not be that house We're also like, we like change I'm surprised we haven't moved already, but I think that at this point, we're like, we're committed to staying in this location until Shepherd, which is like, he's 11 So seven more years until he goes to college So maybe while they're in college, we'd be like, "Hey, let's try something else

" I haven't thought about the child psychology, because I know kids like to come back to something familiar So I don't know I haven't thought about that aspect of it Even seven more years in this house And I do start to think about that too It's like, I know that there'll be a lot more memories in this house but there's also not, there's not a lot of room for someone for additional people to come back to

But I do start to think about that But to directly answer Grace-Anna's question very quickly You should feel incredible about your, it's age 17 good, listen The peak of your life is right over the horizon Listen, you've got right now at age 17, that there's a bunch of things that are about to coincide

Your level of passion for things and your level of freedom are about to combine in a beautiful synergistic explosion And you need to realize that Don't wish it away You have this incredible opportunity to just not have a whole lot of responsibility Get a van

Yes, get a van Are we talking about a gap year here? Is that what you're talking about? No, no Well, first of all, gap years are becoming very common because of quarantine, because of the coronavirus The whole world is in a gap year Right but no, gap year, yes

But I'm just talking about the fact that, you're gonna feel like college is a lot, but just let me tell you, it's not It's like don't, I'm not saying don't study I'm just saying that don't fall for the lie that it's a lot It's freedom, it's free And not everybody goes to college

But what I'm saying is, before that you got this gap between being under your parents' roof and then having a roof with other people under it There's this window That's the window of opportunity You know what I'm saying? Just see it for what it is Just see it for what it is

Enjoy it Nouisxsweet There's no name associated with this, but that's the handle It looks like Louis but with an N "What do you think is a turning point for becoming an adult? "I'm currently 18 and my life hasn't changed that much "these past years and I can't see myself as an adult

"Is it getting a job "a degree or is it just a matter of age?" Kennedy, @kennedygerow, kind of adds to this question "At what point in your life did you feel "like you actually had a good handle on things? "I just graduated college and I will start my first, "big girl job soon and I'm very overwhelmed" It's like trying to figure out when are you an adult and when do you feel like you have a handle on things? I've said before that Yeah, Christie's back there She's mouthing "never" Yeah, that's exactly right I mean, I think I've thought before

I felt like I've said before that, I feel like I'm an adult when I had responsibility, definitely having kids made me feel like, oh, well I'm not the kid because now I have one That must make me the adult But it was something that I kinda had to stop and derive Well, yes To me, I think the moment that you become an adult is when you have the realization that no one has a handle on things

Like it's the moment in which you are, which is like all of a sudden, you look around and you're like, "Oh, "They also don't know what the hell they're doing "This is great "They're all faking it "They're all faking that they've got it figured out" That's the moment you become an adult because when you're a child, you look up usually because you're short and you see these adults and they just, they seem like, I mean, they're moving and then

Their shirts are total direction britches And they're like cranking up cars and like jogging and bringing in food They're doing lots of things that seem purposeful, that make you feel stable

But then when you become that person and you're like, I'm kinda just doing what they did, but hold on I don't really know what I'm doing I feel overwhelmed I don't have a handle on things That's the realization, that's when you become an adult

Well, Lisa @BleedBlueBurgun tweeted, one of these usernames are crazy Lisa said, "I think this quote "would be a cool topic point on getting older "This is from Alden Nowlan" Nowlan never heard of this guy, have you? "The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, "he becomes an adolescent "The day he forgives them, he becomes an adult

" That's an eloquent way of saying what we're talking about Same thing we were saying, that there's a level of maturity associated with realizing that no one is, everyone's imperfect Nobody's got everything figured out No one makes the right decision Everybody's in need of forgiveness

And if you can give that, I think that's a, I think that's a good measuring stick for adulthood, for maturity If you can forgive people and probably forgive yourself too and give yourself an end to say, "Hey, we're all just, we're all just, "we're all stumbling forward in time towards our own demise "but we might as well live it up in the meantime" 'Cause another aspect of it, I don't remember exactly the moment that this hit me, but there was a moment in which I found myself living through a personal moment in my life that coincided with the first memory of my parents Does that make sense? So, when I started realizing, like, I remember like seeing my parents be parents, there was a moment that I can remember my parents doing parental things And then there's a moment in which you see yourself doing the same thing and that's when you can begin to get to that point of forgiveness

You're like, "Damn, it's hard to be a parent" You had sympathy for your own parents and even though it doesn't help, I tell my 16 year old this all the time It's like, "I can't wait till you have your own kids" I mean, that's a pointless thing to say Cliche

And I shouldn't say it, I say it in frustration, but it's also true because there will come a time I'm hoping that there will be a phone call or an email, or at least a text that is just like, "Okay, dad, I get it" You know what I'm saying? And I think that's the moment That's another way to kind of gauge adulthood You don't have to be a parent It could be a stage of life where you can relate to another generation

Did you ever have that moment with your parents where you were like, "You know what, I get it" It's funny today, I talked to my mom, she wished me happy birthday and she was like, "Well, I wanna know, do you feel old as dirt?" And I was like, I laughed And she was like, "When I turned 42, "I remembered that you told me," "Man, mom, you're old as dirt" She held on to that "So now that you're 42, do you feel old as dirt?" And she said she remembered it

She's been waiting all these years She's been waiting all these years I don't remember saying that to her I'm sure it was a joke She basically said it was a joke

But, do you There is an aspect of aging that is, you talk to your parents differently Was there a point where you, just the way that you're waiting for Lock to text you and say, "You know what, I get it

" Do you recall giving that to your parents? The way that that comes up for me is, I don't do this all the time, but I'm not necessarily great at saying it I'm pretty good at writing it And so, in a number of cards over the years, whether it's Father's Day, Mother's Day, birthday or whatever, and again, I'm not super consistent in this, but I've definitely have specific memories of sitting down and being, I'm going to write how much I appreciate that, how my mom mothered me, how my father fathered me because I get it Understanding how meaningful it was to have my dad present for all my sporting events and stuff like that and growing up and realizing, "Damn, that's really hard to do" That took intention and sacrifice

So acknowledging that in cards is what you've done? Yeah, I'm not saying we haven't talked about it, but I'm saying that I, in some fashion, even though I'm not the best communicator, I have communicated that to them as I've grown older I remember one time when I was in college, my dad had a camper and he took it to Jordan Lake and me and my dad, this was like the first time ever that me and my dad like did a camping trip, like sleepover thing where it was just the two of us And I remember we were sitting out there at Jordan Lake and we cracked open a beer, we like shared a beer Well, we each had our own beer And I just remember that being a milestone moment

I remember being nervous going I was like, "I'm driving out here and meeting my dad" I never lived with my dad except in like visitation situations But it was really cool because like all of a sudden we were two guys doing things that we would both do with our friends, but we were doing it with each other and we were having a conversation that we would each have with a friend And I mean, that was a long time coming from me and my dad, because we never lived together

There are elements of that with all of my kids, like I try to speak to them I talk to them about things and I talk to them in ways that I would talk to you sometimes depending on the subject matter There are these parents who, they never stop baby talking their kids, even when they're adults I know of people, I'm not close to people, but I've observed people who would still talk kind of like baby talk to their, their daughter or son that's in their 20s What? Yeah

I'm thinking of one person in particular that you, but you don't know them We need to talk about this after, because I don't know There's parents who never change how they talk to their children and that's just not good I never baby talked either of my kids I just baby talk the dog I figured that she can take it for her entire life

But I look forward to having an adult to adult relationship with my kids That's why I like to picture them once they leave coming back and whether it's here or somewhere else, like I wanna create an environment where they wanna be a part of me and Christie's lives Well, you know, the way to do that The way to do that is Probably a beach house Yes, you get, either get a beach house If we're so blessed to be able to afford one, or you rent a beach house and taking your adult children on vacation, that's how you keep them That's how you keep 'em around because they are not gonna be able to afford their own vacation

They're all going into this world that's gonna be all the robots are gonna have the jobs They're gonna wanna go on vacation with you forever They're gonna want it They're going to wanna like take the hibernation pill and then only wake up for hibernation to go– For a vacation With me and then just hibernate again

And I think that what we're gonna do, and we'll still be making content on some level Maybe we'll still be making this podcast I think that we need to commit right now that we're going to be the parents that they want to go on vacation with You know what I'm saying? You gotta think about it There needs to be a survey or something

We gotta do like a kid's focus group to be like, what makes going on vacation with people miserable and make sure that we're not the ones contributing to that Whatever that is, let's commit to that Because somebody has got the ability to pay for your vacation, doesn't make the vacation fun No Those are two completely different things

All right, Erika with a K, very active mythical beast She's got a Her question was so intense and so long that it took two tweets

"Looking back at myself in my twenties "and even early thirties and realizing that "many of my opinions and viewpoints were still being formed "by my parent "I feel like I didn't start forming independent thoughts "until later in life "When do you think you start truly having opinions and views "that wouldn't necessarily be approved by your parents? "Do you think the need for approval "from such major influences, parents "slows down progressive changes in societal issues?" Whoa, this is a big one to get into right here at the end Let's just say, yes She asked me, that's my answer, yes

#EarBiscuits, let's know what you think No, we're gonna answer it So, you know, when we talked about the last years, we kinda told our life story and that we were raised in a very particular sort of way of thinking and we don't think that way exactly anymore And first of all, that's a super common thing not just today with us, been a super common thing throughout the history of the world, especially post-industrial revolution, there's lots of societal generational changes that take place pretty quickly And the older generations is like "Back in my day, "we didn't think like this

" But so anyway, and also most child psychologists suggest that a child sees a structure, and most kids need to sort of rebel through that structure, even if they kinda come back to it And Jesse and I were talking about our personalities and we are both rule followers I'm a three on the Enneagram, I'm a performer, but one of the great ways to kinda exercise your threeness is to recognize how to succeed within a framework and then be like, "Oh, I can do that, that's what I did" "I did well in school, "I did well in sports and I was a good kid "that made my parents proud" It was really good at that

Jesse's a two on the Enneagram, which is not about achieving, but it's more about helping people do things and basically being there for people, but in the same way that she's a rule follower So we got well into adulthood, into our 30s, still holding very tightly to basically the things that we have been taught in our parents that taught us But we were also then talking about a guy that we went to high school with, I'm not gonna name his name, that was a friend of ours who also went to church with us But then all of a sudden, you remember this prom one year, junior year or senior year, he showed up dressed, In a dress But not just dressed as a woman, like he had on makeup and he had done his hair and it almost was like so well done that the first thing I thought was, who's the new girl? I remember thinking that

And then the second thing I thought was that's so-and-so so-and-so and with the time I was like, Oh, that's a funny joke Like, I wasn't like, I can't believe he did that I remember just thinking that, like, that was really bold and very funny He really pulled that off, but I didn't stop and think, why did he do that? As we grew up a little bit, I realized that, oh He was making a statement He checked out He rebelled against the system that he saw in place at the time He just did it in high school and then he went out to college, and became an adult who was somebody that didn't hold to the same worldview as his parents

But it took me to get to in my 30s, before I began to investigate the worldview And I'm not saying that this isn't really a truth, non true, whether it's true or not, that's not what I'm We talked about that a lot in the last years

This is more about like the way that you think and the way that you see the world, have you ever made it personal? You may just you may transfer the same exact worldview that was handed to you by your parents and make it personal and actually passionately interact with it But usually the process of actually wanting to kinda take control and make it your own, one of two things happen, you grab hold of it and it slips out of your hand You realize that's not for me or you grab hold of it and you realize that it fits your hands perfectly and you adopt it But different personalities make that decision at different times I kinda got all the way through my 20s, still in a very performance oriented mindset where it was about making my parents proud

And that's not every, I think Erika is saying that she's the same kind of person My wife's the same kind of person, but a lot of people, including the guy we're talking about who we went to high school with, it happened earlier for him Yeah, I think for me too it was If you tell me the right way to do it and enough people agree, then it's just, this is the safe, secure path and I'm gonna, I can feel okay I can feel confident and it's, I didn't have this sense of needing to discover myself or express myself in a way that was counter to anything that I was, the plans that I was adopting

I just wanna feel okay I just wanna feel safe I don't wanna feel like I'm out here on a limb trying to figure this out I just didn't have, I didn't have that drive I had another drive, I had to drive for security

And so yeah, it was, I think it did take a long time for me to start to figure out who I was for me and not for anybody else And then, we got married so young that you transfer from, okay, this is the family that I grew up in This is a system that works there to Now this is the family that I've formed And I gotta meet Christie's expectations She's gotta meet my expectations It's like, you go from one to another, at least we did Yeah, well into the second part of the question about, "Do you think this slows down "progressive changes in societal issues?" Definitely it does, but, and I'm not listen, I didn't study this

This is total Rhett pulling it out of his ass, which is a good bit of what I say, but my theory on this, the way that I think about like societal progression, I think one of the big changes in worldview that happened, like when I was a evangelical Christian, I saw the world as getting progressively worse 'cause that's consistent with eschatology The idea that things are gonna slowly get progressively worse and then Jesus is gonna come back Now that I don't believe that anymore and I'm more progressive in my mindset I actually think that the world is getting better And I actually think if you read Steven Pinker's latest book, I think the facts are on the side of it

Actually, even though it seems more chaotic and you're getting a lot more information that makes it seem even right now with riots happening throughout the, throughout the nation, you may be, "Oh everything's going crazy" Well, in reality, basically every marker that you can measure, society is getting better over time So I think the facts are on the side of things are progressing But what I've always said is that stretching progression like you know, social progressive stuff is like stretching the fabric of society And it eventually fills in and you stretch it

And I think that people only have so much capacity for change It's like you pull it, you pull it too hard and sometimes it rips and then you've gotta stitch it and you gotta keep pulling I believe that you keep pushing things in the right direction And to me, it's just a good segue to zoom out and say, I feel like what's going on right now We're at such a pivotal moment in history and it's such an important moment in time that we can choose to be on the sidelines be part of the problem, be a part of the solutions be a part of the evolution, the positive evolution of society and I do have hope, to bring the full circle as we listen, and as we have open minds and open hearts, that it's a privilege to have the opportunity to be a part of what's happening now

And it's scary and there's no clear path forward on a number of fronts What you think about racial injustice, what you think about the environment, what you think about this pandemic, you can add things to the list But we're a part of it and we can impact it and we can do that stretching I'm choosing to find hope in that and to find a way to be a part of it and to move forward and not just try to escape or ignore, or just get old Yeah, well, and I think that you were talking about earlier the aspect of feeling like you're standing on the sidelines sometimes

And I think everybody probably has a tendency to feel that way The way that I've kind of seen my role in this stretching of societal fabric over the course of my life is that first of all, my personality is one who is naturally gonna grab onto the blanket I'm going to grab onto the fabric That's just the kinda way I live my life And I spent a good portion of my life pulling on one side of that fabric, trying to keep it in place

And I feel like one of the things that I'm doing in the second half of my life is saying, "I actually feel like I was wrong "and I'm moving to the other side of the blanket "and I'm pulling on it" And that's kinda the way that I see the two halves of my life and the way I've kinda contributed to what Erika is kind of talking about, these bigger societal issues And so in some ways I kind of feel like I'm making up for things and that's just, I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's how I interact with it And I don't think, and I do think that there was sort of this middle period where it was kinda like, all right, I'm gonna let go of the blanket I'm letting go of the fabric everybody's pulling on

I'm gonna just watch for a little bit And then once I was like, "Okay, "I think I know what direction I wanna pull" I've just been pulling it harder In the context of aging, we've talked about being engaged You can let life pass you by, as they say, you can let life happen to you or you can happen to life

I think that's the thing that I want to, I want to be engaged I want to be happening to life and not life just happening to me Life throws a lot at us and there's things, but when you respond, we do have the ability to engage And I think that that's again, that's exciting and that's a place where there's hope in that Yeah, well, and the last thing I'll say is I think that the biggest difference with the way that I engage about these things, and specifically like the issue of racial injustice, I think that I spent a good portion of my life thinking about what I had to protect personally

Like what were my rights and my interests and how do I hold tightly to those and how do I protect those? And I think one of the biggest changes that has taken place over the past decade is trying to think a little bit less about what I have and what my rights are and think about people who have been marginalized, people who have been denied rights, people who have been denied opportunity, people who don't have the same opportunity that I have and think, "Oh, okay, "I kinda wanna realign my actions, the way I give "the way I spend my time and the things I say "and who I vote for," to take those people into account rather than just think about what I have and what's mine and what I can protect And that may be an oversimplification, but it's been helpful for me to see it that way And I think it's a good sort of North star as like, are you thinking about yourself or are you thinking about others? 'Cause you only got one life to live unless we have more that I don't know about You won't know and if you do, you probably won't remember it unless you adhere to a particular faith system that recognizes that and then you do some sort of exploration of your past lives But who's to say that you'll be able to do that

You might find your self in a worldview that denies that, and you'll miss out all the opportunities of living your subsequent lives #EarBiscuits If anything we've said, except for the very last part, even that I don't care, Even that man Has given you something that you wanna weigh in on, please do that Let's keep the conversation going

And I look forward to maybe not, not being in separate places for the next "EarBiscuits" next week, but we will speak at you Fingers crossed And thanks for your questions as always, you're contributing to the conversation, let's carry the conversation on, on the internet To watch more "Ear Biscuits", click on the playlist on the right, to watch the previous episode of "Ear Biscuits", click on the playlist to the left And don't forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it's available on all your favorite podcast platforms Thanks for being your mythical best

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